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| rb3rbrtberb |
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rb3rbrtberb
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 Posted: 17:27 - 09 May 2022  Post subject: Doing licenses without any lessons? |
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Hello,
I've booked my CBT and my Theory test for a few weeks time, after that I need to plan the next few steps to gaining full bike license.
From my understanding the Mod1 can be taken on a 125cc motorbike, it is in a closed off area away from the public roads, so I wanted to know if you need insurance on the bike? (I'm presuming yes).
From what I've seen online of people taking the test, the Mod1 is more of displaying handling of the bike then road manors etc, so I can't see why you couldn't practice this on private car park before hand (Luckily my business has a huge car park that I can practice on).
so this comes to the mod2, what size bike/power must you take the test on, and as its on the road it must be fully insured, taxed and Mot etc, this is the only part of the test I could imagine it would be a good idea to get some lessons for, but is it possible to learn these skills before hand yourself to pass this test?
I have loads of mates that said I can borrow their bikes to take the test and as I have trade insurance I can add the bikes to the insurance for the day etc on the MID.
Originally my plan was to buy a cheap 125cc and do Mod1 and mod2, but I can see you can't do that, so your forced to own two bikes from my understanding, and you can't even ride to the test centre on the bigger bike because you'll not be legal to do so without an instructor.
I presume they have made it this way to force you to use a riding school etc?
My end goal is simple, I want to buy a Yamaha WR250F for using off road with some small use on road (Presuming it can be made road legal, question I've asked also), but I require a full license to do this. I have zero interest in super-bikes or commuting to work on such a bike... So there is the reason I'm trying to do it cheap as possible and achieve the end goal without blowing the bank.
If the place I'm riding is more than 30mins away I will be putting it on the back of my Hilux and driving there! 
I'm 38years old by the way, driving a car since 2001, run and own a motorsport company, where we deal with high performance track cars, etc, never had a road crash and never had a single point on my driving license, so please afford me a little wiggle room on your opinions as I'm not fresh out of the gate. However saying that I've only ever ridden Motor-cross bikes, so my biggest worry is being caught not using the clutch between gears or popping that fast leg out
Hopefully we can have a little discussions without "JUST GET LESSONS OTHERWISE YOU"LL DIE INSTANTLY", if thats you... step away from keyboard and chill 
Thank you. |
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| doggone |
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doggone
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| Evil Hans |
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Evil Hans
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| rb3rbrtberb |
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rb3rbrtberb
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| Posted: 17:44 - 09 May 2022 Post subject: |
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| doggone wrote: | Like the car test it's more about being aware what they are looking for.
No harm in trying without, if you are Ok with probably having to rebook due to missing some obviously totally vital thing - which will inevitably kill you don't religiously do it on the road.
.The motoX experience means you have above average control but perhaps over confident as they see it |
Haha, I hear your point
Regarding the over confidence, I would say I'm massively the other way actually, I'm not someone that has anything to prove and I'm a stickler for rules and regulations etc, hence never having any points on my license I've always had the same approach with anything to do with the road, on a race track everyone is at the very least going the same way as you and you've got run off.. the road is by far the most dangerous place there is, so I do not think I would be over confident, but I would know my limits. In-fact this is why I've never wanted to do my bike license as I never wanted to ride on the public roads with the idiots...
I appreciate there is no substitute for seat time and that is something I preach to my customers etc, but having 20+ years or driving experience and knowing what to expect of other people on the road is a good foundation, specially with traffic laws and regulations.
I'm really good at picking thigs up and as mentioned above, I'm not against having a few lessons to do mod2, if anything that is sensible. But if its possible without for my use case I would take it. |
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| rb3rbrtberb |
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rb3rbrtberb
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| Zen Dog |
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Zen Dog
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| Posted: 17:50 - 09 May 2022 Post subject: Re: Doing licenses without any lessons? |
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| superclarkey wrote: | Hopefully we can have a little discussions without "JUST GET LESSONS OTHERWISE YOU"LL DIE INSTANTLY", if thats you... step away from keyboard and chill |
It's not about that. To quote from another thread -
| ThunderGuts wrote: | Mod 1 is harder IMO, at least as someone who was already a driver so knew how the roads "work". Yes the open road is uncontrolled, but the mod2 assessment is all about how you deal with those environments. There's no rush, not ultra-precise agenda to follow. You just ride.
Mod 1 is ultra-pedantic. Go too slowly, fail. Stop at the wrong point, fail. Don't do shoulder checks religiously on every manoeuvre (even though you're in a fenced-in area with total knowledge there are no other vehicles), fail. It's all about precisely following a set formula, but it's not a completely logical formula and is unlikely to resemble anything you can draw on, so you need to have it nailed in your memory. That's why I think mod 1 is harder. |
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Current - '94 VFR750FR, '00 VFR800FI Previous - '10 Street Triple R, '92 MZ ETZ301, '05 TTR250, NSR125R, KMX125, "Honda" Win (chinese copy of an old Honda design with a C90 engine)
My bike trip around S.E. Asia 2010/2011 |
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| rb3rbrtberb |
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rb3rbrtberb
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| Posted: 18:04 - 09 May 2022 Post subject: Re: Doing licenses without any lessons? |
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| Zen Dog wrote: | | superclarkey wrote: | Hopefully we can have a little discussions without "JUST GET LESSONS OTHERWISE YOU"LL DIE INSTANTLY", if thats you... step away from keyboard and chill |
It's not about that. To quote from another thread -
| ThunderGuts wrote: | Mod 1 is harder IMO, at least as someone who was already a driver so knew how the roads "work". Yes the open road is uncontrolled, but the mod2 assessment is all about how you deal with those environments. There's no rush, not ultra-precise agenda to follow. You just ride.
Mod 1 is ultra-pedantic. Go too slowly, fail. Stop at the wrong point, fail. Don't do shoulder checks religiously on every manoeuvre (even though you're in a fenced-in area with total knowledge there are no other vehicles), fail. It's all about precisely following a set formula, but it's not a completely logical formula and is unlikely to resemble anything you can draw on, so you need to have it nailed in your memory. That's why I think mod 1 is harder. |
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Yeah, thing is, the Mod1 is cheap, £15.50? I means I could take it 10 times before actually getting upset, I'm sure you would learn from your mistakes and pass at some point.
I think for £15.50 I would risk it a few times, and if I was still failing then I would get a lesson.
I'm not a total cheapskate, but I called around riding schools and was shocked at the prices to do the lessons and tests, like £900-£1200 and saying direct access etc, I can't imagine I need 10 lessons on the road of 3 hours each.. that in my eyes is totally ridiculous... I get it for someone that might have never drove a car on the road and was first time of being a rider/driver... etc.
I got that feeling it was all a bit of a rip off tbh, I get they lend you the bikes and insurance etc, so thats what I'm trying to work out, do I pay rape prices of a £1k.. or do I buy a bike for £1-2k just to get my license lol.
Not being funny, you've got to buy the gear you ride in anyways if you want to ride on the road.
I just don't understand how a CBT is £150.. and Mod 1 is £15.50, makes no sense to me. |
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| Kentol750 |
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Kentol750
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| Freddyfruitba... |
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Freddyfruitba...
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| Posted: 18:21 - 09 May 2022 Post subject: Re: Doing licenses without any lessons? |
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| superclarkey wrote: | I just don't understand how a CBT is £150.. and Mod 1 is £15.50, makes no sense to me. |
Well, they're different things... CBT assumes no prior experience; you've never been on the road, probably never been astride a motorbike; you won't have your own machine yet (because effectively you need CBT before you buy one). But most significantly the "T" in CBT stands for "Training" not "Test"; the idea is that the trainers spend time imparting at least a few pearls of wisdom to their punters so they hopefully don't end up under a juggernaut first time out.
In contrast, the Mod 1 test is just that, a test. No training involved. By the time that comes along, the candidate will have been riding around on L-plates for a while, and may or may not have paid out extra for lessons before the test. (Still seems a surprisingly low amount compared with what the government could charge, though.)
By the way, OP, you do know you'll also need to pass another theory test before Mod 1, don't you?
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Last edited by Freddyfruitbat on 18:32 - 09 May 2022; edited 1 time in total |
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| Evil Hans |
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Evil Hans
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| Copycat73 |
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Copycat73
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| rb3rbrtberb |
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rb3rbrtberb
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| Posted: 18:45 - 09 May 2022 Post subject: |
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| Kentol750 wrote: | If you do an a1 (125) mod 1 then you need to pass the mod 2 on an a1 bike to get the licence. The same applies to all categories passing Mod 1 just allows you to do a mod 2.
If you can get a bike insured as provisional and can transport it somewhere to practice and then to the test centre then go for it. I've seen a guy turn up for a mod 2 doing exactly that. 4 times before he passed! There's a very good reason it costs what it does, you're paying for our expertise! |
I will look into bikes sizes now, as I didn't think it made a difference for a test, but I can see quickly looking at the gov website it does.
I'm just a bit wary of paying for lessons, as I like to when I did my trailer test (B+E), and basically told "if your turn up with your own trailer and no lessons you'll fail mate" and I heard from other people that who had taken test several times and when they turned up with the schools trailer and pass first time with doing nothing difference. And to drill this point home, I had been using a trailer for 12 years on the road (large car transporter).
I wonder if that guy failed 4 times because he didn't come on a school bike??? (wild speculation lol)... I'm sure that never happens
And the joke of that now is that B+E is now awarded to everyone without training... so you can see why I'm a little bit wary of the whole licensing sector.
I'm perfectly happy to take some instruction and learn some things that are bike only information that i wouldn't know, but when the tests are CBT + Mod 1 + Mod 2 = £240 all in, I would like to keep that cost down as much as possible as I have very little interest in riding on the road in any other time then from the back of my truck and across a few main roads... if I can do it on a push bike and I'm still here, I'm sure I can do it on a bike
But being told I need to book 10 lessons without even seeing how I ride, bothers me.
I've just got to the point in my life, when someone says that is hard to do and you'll struggle, just trying is half of the battle. |
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rb3rbrtberb
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| Posted: 18:52 - 09 May 2022 Post subject: Re: Doing licenses without any lessons? |
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| Freddyfruitbat wrote: | | superclarkey wrote: | I just don't understand how a CBT is £150.. and Mod 1 is £15.50, makes no sense to me. |
Well, they're different things... CBT assumes no prior experience; you've never been on the road, probably never been astride a motorbike; you won't have your own machine yet (because effectively you need CBT before you buy one). But most significantly the "T" in CBT stands for "Training" not "Test"; the idea is that the trainers spend time imparting at least a few pearls of wisdom to their punters so they hopefully don't end up under a juggernaut first time out.
In contrast, the Mod 1 test is just that, a test. No training involved. By the time that comes along, the candidate will have been riding around on L-plates for a while, and may or may not have paid out extra for lessons before the test. (Still seems a surprisingly low amount compared with what the government could charge, though.)
By the way, OP, you do know you'll also need to pass another theory test before Mod 1, don't you? |
I appreciate the CBT includes the bike and a morning and afternoon etc, there is no option to use your own bike etc, and the one I've booked on I still need to bring my own gear etc. I understand why it costs that much, but if if you was redoing your CBT after expiry its no cheaper is it? even if you could use your own bike... so it does feel a bit scammy for those who are already ridden for two years, no? (I see your point though).
The Mod 1 test is a bargain lol I've had pints that have cost more than that lol
I'm doing my theory test before my CBT, my under standing is CBT + Theory before you can do Mod1 then Mod2. Correct me if I'm wrong. |
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| Zen Dog |
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Zen Dog
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| Posted: 19:05 - 09 May 2022 Post subject: Re: Doing licenses without any lessons? |
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| superclarkey wrote: | Yeah, thing is, the Mod1 is cheap, £15.50? I means I could take it 10 times before actually getting upset, I'm sure you would learn from your mistakes and pass at some point. |
Is there a minimum cooling off period between tests these days though? It used to be a month, but that was a long time ago so I have no idea now. Also, the test backlog seriously built up over the pandemic, but I don't know if that's been cleared now and may be dependent on your area.
Point being, taking it over and over may be more a test of your patience than your wallet.
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rb3rbrtberb
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| Posted: 22:39 - 09 May 2022 Post subject: |
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I think the one thing that confuses me a little why there is a Mod1 and Mod2 for riders going straight for A license, because surely, can't see why you can't just do the Mod2 test and done deal |
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Posted: 08:58 - 10 May 2022  Post subject: |
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| superclarkey wrote: | I think the one thing that confuses me a little why there is a Mod1 and Mod2 for riders going straight for A license, because surely, can't see why you can't just do the Mod2 test and done deal |
As the previous poster, but also because the activities you do in the mod1 would generally be unsafe to do on the public road. While we (me included) find the mod1 as an activity to be very formulaic and unrealistic, it IS a way to test a rider's bike-handling abilities (to a point) in a safe environment.
Going back to the original topic, my summary;
Mod1 is very specific and rehearsed; lessons aren't needed in theory, but in practice you're very likely to fail without them as you simply won't be rehearsed in the nuances of what is required.
Mod2 is "just" riding a bike on the open road, but there are differences in what is looked for vs driving a car (primarily around defensive riding / safety etc..), so you need to have a three point capability; knowledge of the road (which you've probably got), good control of the bike (which you probably mostly have, but off-road riding isn't quite the same) and knowledge of bike-specific behaviours and techniques (which you probably don't have). This is why lessons are highly recommended for mod2.
The tests are only cheap if you rock up on your own machine, but there are all sorts of issues associated with that (transport, insurance etc..) unless you're happy to just get a licence for a 125 so in reality it's not actually that straightforward. Add into that a backlog of demand for test slots (I assume that's still the case anyway, it certainly was a little while back) and going the "keep trying until I pass" technique will get pretty drawn out I reckon.
I get the frustration, but you really do need to separate road motorcycling from anything else (road or off road) - it really is a different ball game with different rules. If you throw the money at a DAS course (£800 probably, ish) you'll probably have your licence within 2 months and will have accrued some skills along the way too.
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