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Doing licenses without any lessons?

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rb3rbrtberb
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PostPosted: 09:27 - 10 May 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

ThunderGuts wrote:
superclarkey wrote:
I think the one thing that confuses me a little why there is a Mod1 and Mod2 for riders going straight for A license, because surely, can't see why you can't just do the Mod2 test and done deal Very Happy


As the previous poster, but also because the activities you do in the mod1 would generally be unsafe to do on the public road. While we (me included) find the mod1 as an activity to be very formulaic and unrealistic, it IS a way to test a rider's bike-handling abilities (to a point) in a safe environment.

Going back to the original topic, my summary;

Mod1 is very specific and rehearsed; lessons aren't needed in theory, but in practice you're very likely to fail without them as you simply won't be rehearsed in the nuances of what is required.

Mod2 is "just" riding a bike on the open road, but there are differences in what is looked for vs driving a car (primarily around defensive riding / safety etc..), so you need to have a three point capability; knowledge of the road (which you've probably got), good control of the bike (which you probably mostly have, but off-road riding isn't quite the same) and knowledge of bike-specific behaviours and techniques (which you probably don't have). This is why lessons are highly recommended for mod2.

The tests are only cheap if you rock up on your own machine, but there are all sorts of issues associated with that (transport, insurance etc..) unless you're happy to just get a licence for a 125 so in reality it's not actually that straightforward. Add into that a backlog of demand for test slots (I assume that's still the case anyway, it certainly was a little while back) and going the "keep trying until I pass" technique will get pretty drawn out I reckon.

I get the frustration, but you really do need to separate road motorcycling from anything else (road or off road) - it really is a different ball game with different rules. If you throw the money at a DAS course (£800 probably, ish) you'll probably have your licence within 2 months and will have accrued some skills along the way too.


I understand its important to have a test off road that demonstrates the skills etc, but what I mean, is why you can't book for a Mod1+Mod2 at the same time, would make more sense to me.

And more importantly, if you have to do mod1 on a 125cc then isn't that a bit pointless if your going to ride a larger bike straight away on a mod2?

I'm presuming largest bike you can ride is a 125cc in a Mod1.

If so all I'm saying is, that in a car test you do a theory test, then take a practical, and your allowed on the road. It is understood by the point of taking the test you are road worthy. Where I think it breaks down a bit with the bike license, I could understand if you did CBT then had to have lessons and then do the practical Mod1 then you was allowed on the road... but if you do a CBT which we all agree is just the very basics to get you going... you are let loose on the road for upto 2 years... I fail to see after that why a Mod1 is valid, its a bit pointless in my eyes.

I hope you understand I don't disagree you should be tested, just seems a odd way of going about it imho.
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A100man
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PostPosted: 09:34 - 10 May 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

superclarkey wrote:


I understand its important to have a test off road that demonstrates the skills etc, but what I mean, is why you can't book for a Mod1+Mod2 at the same time, would make more sense to me.

And more importantly, if you have to do mod1 on a 125cc then isn't that a bit pointless if your going to ride a larger bike straight away on a mod2?

I'm presuming largest bike you can ride is a 125cc in a Mod1.

If so all I'm saying is, that in a car test you do a theory test, then take a practical, and your allowed on the road. It is understood by the point of taking the test you are road worthy. Where I think it breaks down a bit with the bike license, I could understand if you did CBT then had to have lessons and then do the practical Mod1 then you was allowed on the road... but if you do a CBT which we all agree is just the very basics to get you going... you are let loose on the road for upto 2 years... I fail to see after that why a Mod1 is valid, its a bit pointless in my eyes.

I hope you understand I don't disagree you should be tested, just seems a odd way of going about it imho.


I suggest you write to your MP.
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KiwiBob
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PostPosted: 09:35 - 10 May 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

superclarkey wrote:


I'm presuming largest bike you can ride is a 125cc in a Mod1.



You take your Mod1 on the same size bike that you take Mod 2 on!

Whether you agree or not is immaterial! They are the rules!
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A100man
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PostPosted: 09:35 - 10 May 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Back in the day no-one had lessons. But that was when you were tested by a man in a long mac with a clipboard who hid behind hedges and ducked down alleyways.
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Last edited by A100man on 14:32 - 10 May 2022; edited 1 time in total
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha
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PostPosted: 09:41 - 10 May 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

superclarkey wrote:


I'm presuming largest bike you can ride is a 125cc in a Mod1.


Why are you? Even the simplest, quickest use of Google would provide relevant information. Here's what I found out, 10 seconds after typing "bikes used in Mod 1":

https://www.gov.uk/motorcycle-test/motorcycles-mopeds-you-can-use

I'm getting the vibe you haven't got the nous to actually get through this.
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rb3rbrtberb
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PostPosted: 09:55 - 10 May 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

trevor saxe-coburg-gotha wrote:
superclarkey wrote:


I'm presuming largest bike you can ride is a 125cc in a Mod1.


Why are you? Even the simplest, quickest use of Google would provide relevant information. Here's what I found out, 10 seconds after typing "bikes used in Mod 1":

https://www.gov.uk/motorcycle-test/motorcycles-mopeds-you-can-use

I'm getting the vibe you haven't got the nous to actually get through this.


Oh no, you've hurt my feelings...
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rb3rbrtberb
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PostPosted: 09:58 - 10 May 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

KiwiBob wrote:
superclarkey wrote:


I'm presuming largest bike you can ride is a 125cc in a Mod1.



You take your Mod1 on the same size bike that you take Mod 2 on!

Whether you agree or not is immaterial! They are the rules!


Well, this is where I was a little confused, because on looking on the gov website, which I did read prior to making this thread.... Rolling Eyes I was told above that if I take a 125cc on my mod1, then I would be restricted going into Mod2, but the gov website says 125cc for mod 1 and 600cc for mod 2, unless I'm reading it wrong.

It would be easier if I could take both Mod1 and Mod2 on same bike etc

Thing is, I googled it and researched it and it seems so many people are unsure I thought it was best to ask.
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ThunderGuts
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PostPosted: 10:03 - 10 May 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

You did read it wrong; the category of bike you do your mod1 AND mod2 on is the category of test you take and your entitlement should you pass. FYI, you can't do your test on a 600cc . . . check the rules on bike types/sizes and it's even more bizarre.

This is why it's easier to just sign up with a school. You're old enough to do the A licence, it's pointless doing anything less as the tests are identical. Just go for it, deal with the expenditure and enjoy.
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Fat Angry Scotsman
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PostPosted: 10:42 - 10 May 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mate just do DAS it is going to work out to be less hassle than trying to bodge some other cunts bike onto your insurance for the tests.

The DVSA examiners are not mugs and when I was at the Shieldhall Test Centre for MOD 1, as soon as they clocked a candidate was not on a schools bike they went through the paperwork with a fine-tooth comb.

If you try to use your trade insurance you're going to be turned away as you don't have a license for the vehicle you're trying to extend cover over as I am sure the wording of the policy will specifically exclude driving vehicles for which you are unlicensed.

Use the money you were going to burn on a 125 to just do the fucking DAS and get it done. As an owner of a 125 myself they're only good if:

1. You are young as fuck and can't ride anything bigger yet, or,

2. You have a sub-national speed limit commute and want to get incredible economy as well as being able to filter through traffic.

Anything out with those two specific uses and you're better off getting a bigger bike.
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Copycat73
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PostPosted: 11:11 - 10 May 2022    Post subject: Re: Doing licenses without any lessons? Reply with quote

superclarkey wrote:



I can't see why not if your legally allowed to ride it on the uk roads with an instructor, there is no reason it can't be insured for road risk? Otherwise how would a riding school over the cover on bikes they are loaning out?


Because the instructors have a license issued by DVLA after they pass their instructors courses at cardington.. which proves their legal ability to instruct on the public roads ..
anyway .. ask your insurance provider and see what they say.. my contention is it will be a big fat NO! ... There is your challenge .. prove me wrong..
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Evil Hans
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PostPosted: 11:30 - 10 May 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

superclarkey wrote:

I understand its important to have a test off road that demonstrates the skills etc, but what I mean, is why you can't book for a Mod1+Mod2 at the same time, would make more sense to me.


And if you fail Mod1, the Mod2 slot you've booked is wasted. There's a long enough waiting list already, thanks!

superclarkey wrote:

And more importantly, if you have to do mod1 on a 125cc then isn't that a bit pointless if your going to ride a larger bike straight away on a mod2?


Fucking hell, we've covered this already. Are you even reading the answers?
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 11:35 - 10 May 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

You won't get private insurance for riding a bike that you can only ride legally whilst under instructiuon from a SQEP because it's such a vanishingly small market that there's no profit in the insurers calculating risk and thus how much to charge.

Riding schools, however, will be typically running fleets of bikes being used all day every day and will be getting insured as a business. as there is quite a big market and so most insurers will being looking at it as a typical driving instructor business which they insure thousands of a year.
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Freddyfruitba...
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PostPosted: 11:45 - 10 May 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Evil Hans wrote:
superclarkey wrote:
I understand its important to have a test off road that demonstrates the skills etc, but what I mean, is why you can't book for a Mod1+Mod2 at the same time, would make more sense to me.
And if you fail Mod1, the Mod2 slot you've booked is wasted. There's a long enough waiting list already, thanks!

There are training centres who will block book tests though, and put your name on a pre-booked Mod 2 test as soon as you've got through Mod 1 (obviously that requires a continuous throughput of candidates to work, and probably a cosy relationship with the test centre). My son did exactly this last year - passed Mod 1 and got his name put on a Mod 2 test the following week. Again, using a method like this means the OP having to go through a training school rather using than a cheapskate "DIY" approach...
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Ayrton
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PostPosted: 13:29 - 10 May 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Both mod1 + 2 need to be on a 600cc+ bike, you cant just do mod 1 on a 125.

Every time this question comes up everyone realises that doing it without a school isn't practical. By the time you get a bike from somewhere and insure it you will be quite close to the £700 most places seem to charge. It's well worth the extra money for the training itself anyway since riding a bike is quite different to a car.
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Fat Angry Scotsman
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PostPosted: 14:37 - 10 May 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ayrton wrote:
Every time this question comes up everyone realises that doing it without a school isn't practical.


In a nutshell

https://serendipitygreece.com/wp-content/uploads/comforting-lies-vs-unpleasant-truths-640x480.jpeg
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rb3rbrtberb
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PostPosted: 14:42 - 10 May 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, understood Thumbs Up
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rb3rbrtberb
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PostPosted: 15:51 - 10 May 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for everyone help, I appreciate what you've all said (Good and bad), I was hoping to do this process without it costing over £1k, but if that isn't the case and it is impossible to pass without the help of a riding school then its a bit pointless for me and what my end goals are, which was to ride a enduro bike for short runs.

I've just cancelled my CBT and Theory, hopefully this brings down the waiting times for others Thumbs Up

Will just forget the road going enduro bike and go for a full off-road version Thumbs Up

Thanks.
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Fat Angry Scotsman
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PostPosted: 15:52 - 10 May 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

superclarkey wrote:
I've just cancelled my CBT and Theory, hopefully this brings down the waiting times for others Thumbs Up

Will just forget the road going enduro bike and go for a full off-road version Thumbs Up

Thanks.


God speed Thumbs Up
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ThunderGuts
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PostPosted: 15:53 - 10 May 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're 38; you've at least 30 years of riding in you, potentially over 40 years. Surely it's worth just getting the licence then it's done? It'll achieve your short term aims but also open up other avenues should you wish to go down them at a later date.
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Fat Angry Scotsman
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PostPosted: 16:13 - 10 May 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

ThunderGuts wrote:
You're 38; you've at least 30 years of riding in you, potentially over 40 years. Surely it's worth just getting the licence then it's done? It'll achieve your short term aims but also open up other avenues should you wish to go down them at a later date.


I just find it weird he can afford to buy a Yamaha WR250F that's £7,800.00 new but can't afford £750 to get the license for one Shifty

Each to their own and what he does is his own business, but I just think it's a little short sighted is all.
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha
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PostPosted: 17:15 - 10 May 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

i predict flouncery
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Bhud
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PostPosted: 17:34 - 10 May 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

CBTs are for keeping the masses from becoming restless by keeping pizza delivery costs low enough that anyone can afford them. Just drop a few hundred on the proper training and tests. You know it makes sense. With a road-legal WR250R you'll be able to ride it to the field, rather than put it in a van every single time. If you don't do this, you'll quickly become one of those guys who professes to know more about riding, and bikes, and generally everything, than everyone else. Important to stay grounded in reality - you're never too old to learn something new.
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Ste
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PostPosted: 19:11 - 10 May 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobby the Bastard wrote:
You won't get private insurance for riding a bike that you can only ride legally whilst under instructiuon from a SQEP because it's such a vanishingly small market that there's no profit in the insurers calculating risk and thus how much to charge.

Can get it from Bikesure or at least used to be able to.

Someone would need to check their small print.
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rb3rbrtberb
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PostPosted: 23:43 - 11 May 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

The main reason I've cancelled my CBT and Theory test is because as you might have guessed was to do it myself without help of riding school or very little use of a riding school.. now I can see that isn't possible (so you can't really have a go at me for listening to what your all sayin! lol) That route is off the table for me.

So if I do decide to a license then it does make sense to just pay and do direct access or intensive course. (I don't know if that is one and the same thing or schools still offer 1 week fully passed.. but unsure how they would do that).

So I've not 100% ruled it out for the rest of my life, just for now.

As for why can I spend that kinda money on a bike and refuse to pay £1000-1500 for the test.. its very simple.. I don't give away my money unless it is 100% necessary. I save hard, don't waste it, spend it on things I love.

My issue is just that I won't get much use out of it so its a bit pointless.. when I can still do 98% of things I want to do without it, I also have to factor buying in two sets of gear.. because I don't know how they would feel with me rocking up in Motorcross helmet and goggles and some Tech 7 racing boots lol.

If I was buying a superbike then sure, no question, get the test booked.

My biggest worry about most of this training schools is when I read the reviews online, there is allot of negative reviews of being scammed and basically taking extra money to complete the tests, so as I have very little trust in the human race when it come to money, I was trying to avoid that.

I'm sorry if I come across like a wanker that doesn't listen, its not the case, I've had it my whole life people telling me what I can't do, mainly because they couldn't do it themselves from their perspective, so I'm naturally programmed to listen, make my own judgement and try... the worst that will happen is you fail.. maybe even learn something from it.

In this situation, it's more a case it's not possible without help of riding school, and I can see if you're going to dip you toe in with them you may as well go the full hog.

There you go.. hope I've explained myself a bit.

(Oh and my insurance came back to me, they just said they can't cover me on any motorbike because my policy is very tailored to the job I do, and because I have Nurburgring cover for TF days and track days, they couldn't separate bikes from that, so its just a no go for them without rewriting the policy for me, which would be more then its worth to just insure the bike on my own) so a no, but just a little more complicated lol.. (we didn't even get to talking about the test thing haha).
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ThunderGuts
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PostPosted: 07:42 - 12 May 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Noted, but do also consider that the costs associated with a test are a one-off and life-long investment. A bike, car etc.. will depreciate, but your test fees are a cold, hard investment that will stand.
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