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st3v3 |
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st3v3 Super Spammer
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Nobby the Bastard |
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Nobby the Bastard Harley Gaydar
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Kawasaki Jimbo |
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Kawasaki Jimbo World Chat Champion
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Nobby the Bastard |
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Nobby the Bastard Harley Gaydar
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stinkwheel |
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stinkwheel Bovine Proctologist
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Posted: 20:21 - 17 May 2022 Post subject: |
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So kind of like a reverse turbo. The more you rev the engine, the more power it sucks from the car?
The main fault with this idea is having captured the carbon dioxide, using it for something is in no way reducing carbon emissions. The big problem with carbon capture is what the hell do you do with it once you've captured it? The ideal thing would be to precipitate it into a stable solid and use it as a building material but that takes more energy again. ____________________ “Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles. |
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bhinso |
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bhinso World Chat Champion
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Posted: 14:12 - 18 May 2022 Post subject: |
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Outsource it to Scotland.
Along with XR.
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A100man |
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A100man World Chat Champion
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c_dug |
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c_dug Super Spammer
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Posted: 16:22 - 18 May 2022 Post subject: |
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I worked in the Science Museum until very recently and we had an interesting exhibition on Carbon Capture, a bit on the small side but it does explain quite a lot about the technology as it stands, and the limitations for progress in the field - it's open until September if you're in London https://www.sciencemuseum.org.uk/see-and-do/our-future-planet
From memory there are a few different technologies in development, most produce a white powdery substance that looks a bit like sand which is the captured carbon.
Again from memory I think on display is a concrete core made using the captured carbon as an aggregate. Of course Concrete is one of the most polluting materials we make in volume, so this is a little self defeating. ____________________ I am a bellend, I am a man of constant sorrow, I am a gummy bear, I am a rock. |
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bhinso |
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bhinso World Chat Champion
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ThunderGuts |
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ThunderGuts World Chat Champion
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st3v3 |
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st3v3 Super Spammer
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Posted: 22:48 - 18 May 2022 Post subject: |
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stinkwheel wrote: | So kind of like a reverse turbo. The more you rev the engine, the more power it sucks from the car? | Actually no, though I'm not intelligent enough to have thought like that
stinkwheel wrote: | The main fault with this idea is having captured the carbon dioxide, using it for something is in no way reducing carbon emissions. The big problem with carbon capture is what the hell do you do with it once you've captured it? The ideal thing would be to precipitate it into a stable solid and use it as a building material but that takes more energy again. | I agree that capturing released carbon isn't reducing emissions in the first place but talking in context of the thread on here about fancy cars and electric making ICE redundant; if every vehicle that moved was taking Co2 out of the air, the planet wouldn't be burning itself alive and the shift to EVs wouldn't be anywhere near as pressing.
We could enjoy V8s a bit longer without the Greenpeace guilt trip.
c_dug wrote: | I worked in the Science Museum until very recently and we had an interesting exhibition on Carbon Capture, a bit on the small side but it does explain quite a lot about the technology as it stands, and the limitations for progress in the field - it's open until September if you're in London https://www.sciencemuseum.org.uk/see-and-do/our-future-planet
| Handy, i'm at Wembley in July or August so will be looking into that.
ThunderGuts wrote: |
The carbon capture solutions I've heard of embed the carbon into large blocks/containers from memory, with the intention of dropping them into the sea (!). It is, however, still moving a problem around. | Not sure moving it around is a problem, the problem is it being active in the atmosphere.
If we've got breeze block sized chunk of the stuff buried in the depths of uncharted ocean or locked underground in the Sahara then how is it a problem?
It's similar to Nuclear waste in that regard? ..No?
The problem is I can't get a legit contact with any company doing this stuff, I already emailed a local uni who are advertising a successful project along these lines but them professors be busy people.
Also, why the feck haven't most governments by now agreed that they could build capture stations disguised as tower blocks and have 2 or 3 in every city? Surely a 7-10 storey structure quietly sucking Co2 from the air throughout the day is a positive thing? ____________________ Roger wrote: Women don't get damp for clingy puppies. Get some better happy pills, hit the gym & buy a medallion the size of a dinner plate. Job done |
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Robby |
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Robby Dirty Old Man
Joined: 16 May 2002 Karma :
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stinkwheel |
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stinkwheel Bovine Proctologist
Joined: 12 Jul 2004 Karma :
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Posted: 00:30 - 19 May 2022 Post subject: |
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The problem is chemistry. Carbon dioxide is a very stable, low energy state molecule. In the case of the stuff we are producing, the energy has already been removed from the hydrocarbons. In order to make it something that's NOT cabon dioxide, you have to apply energy.
The best form of carbon capture is plants. They use a solar powered proton pump to break apart carbon dioxide and turn it into sugar. Then they stick the sugar together to make it into wood. It did occurr to me that probably the most efficient means of atmospheric carbon capture would be algae farms. Unless someone comes up with a way of making large scale synthetic chloroplasts. ____________________ “Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles. |
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Easy-X |
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Easy-X Super Spammer
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Posted: 17:21 - 19 May 2022 Post subject: |
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We already have a system of carbon capture: they're called plants. Grow more plants
Obviously there's more to it than that:
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/ask-the-experts-does-rising-co2-benefit-plants1/
TBH CO2 isn't really important. A rise in levels might kill us in a thousand years or so. Particulates and Nitrogen Oxides are killing ppl right now ____________________ Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter |
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st3v3 |
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st3v3 Super Spammer
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Posted: 14:28 - 30 May 2022 Post subject: |
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Robby wrote: |
Carbon capture direct from the air is significantly more expensive and energy intensive. You're trying to pull out a trace gas, whereas in the exhaust of a gas power plant CO2 is a significant factor.
| That's the thing, I don't think it needs to be.
Na forget the exhaust, focus on the trace gas (I presume this also means minority?) part of the problem, from what i've read the carbon parts of environmental gas/air is something that can be bottled, heated and seperated?
Why aren't we reverse engineering this process? There must be a simple way of filtering out carbon dioxide from the other gases it mixes with?
How much energy does it take for oxygen to be concentrated into tanks for hospital patients?
stinkwheel wrote: | The problem is chemistry. Carbon dioxide is a very stable, low energy state molecule. In the case of the stuff we are producing, the energy has already been removed from the hydrocarbons. In order to make it something that's NOT carbon dioxide, you have to apply energy. | Let's keep it as carbon dioxide, so we don't need to waste energy converting it initially; there has to be an easy way to make (mostly) blocks or cylinders of the stuff?
If there is a way to do that on a domestic level, the world changes? ____________________ Roger wrote: Women don't get damp for clingy puppies. Get some better happy pills, hit the gym & buy a medallion the size of a dinner plate. Job done |
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c_dug |
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c_dug Super Spammer
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Posted: 15:04 - 30 May 2022 Post subject: |
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st3v3 wrote: | Let's keep it as carbon dioxide, so we don't need to waste energy converting it initially; there has to be an easy way to make (mostly) blocks or cylinders of the stuff?
If there is a way to do that on a domestic level, the world changes? |
Carbon Dioxide in its solid state is better known as Dry Ice, the stuff they use for fancy smoke effects amongst other things. It needs to be cooled to not far off of -80°c which takes a huge amount of energy to achieve, and then it needs to be kept there, which takes a huge amount of energy to sustain. "Huge" relatively, as in, in you'll generate more carbon dioxide than you'll capture. ____________________ I am a bellend, I am a man of constant sorrow, I am a gummy bear, I am a rock. |
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Nobby the Bastard |
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Nobby the Bastard Harley Gaydar
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ThunderGuts |
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ThunderGuts World Chat Champion
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Posted: 15:28 - 30 May 2022 Post subject: |
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c_dug wrote: | st3v3 wrote: | Let's keep it as carbon dioxide, so we don't need to waste energy converting it initially; there has to be an easy way to make (mostly) blocks or cylinders of the stuff?
If there is a way to do that on a domestic level, the world changes? |
Carbon Dioxide in its solid state is better known as Dry Ice, the stuff they use for fancy smoke effects amongst other things. It needs to be cooled to not far off of -80°c which takes a huge amount of energy to achieve, and then it needs to be kept there, which takes a huge amount of energy to sustain. "Huge" relatively, as in, in you'll generate more carbon dioxide than you'll capture. |
In theory actually you liberate energy when you cool something down and you liberate even more when it changes from gas to liquid to solid (enthalpy change). The opposite is true and more obvious; you need energy to vapourise a liquid, e.g. water. Unfortunately, when cooling something down, extracting the energy completely efficiently is where the energy cost comes in, it's not that the process doesn't release energy, it's just we haven't found a way to do it without it consuming an awful lot at the same time. Incidentally, that's essentially what air-source (or ground-source/water-source) heat pumps do, they cool down the surrounding air/water/ground to extract the energy and feed it into your heating system.
Back to topic though, the form of carbon storage really needs to be something that is stable in the long term without the need for specialist storage and/or ongoing maintenance. I suspect converting carbon dioxide into pure carbon would be ideal, but again we're back to massive energy required because as stinkwheel says, CO2 is very stable and requires a lot of energy to break the bonds.
I like the idea of massive amounts of photosynthesis. Who knows, maybe we'll refine the idea one day to produce sugar (i.e. a food source) more directly through a biochemical reaction rather than via plants, it'll then kill two birds with one stone, remove CO2 and produce food at the same time (albeit a basic food, but it's still something useful). ____________________ TG. |
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Robby Dirty Old Man
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stinkwheel |
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stinkwheel Bovine Proctologist
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stinkwheel |
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stinkwheel Bovine Proctologist
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Nobby the Bastard |
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Nobby the Bastard Harley Gaydar
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Robby |
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st3v3 |
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st3v3 Super Spammer
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Robby |
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Robby Dirty Old Man
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 1 year, 296 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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