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Tip for diagnosis problems with ethanol/water in fuel

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Robby
Dirty Old Man



Joined: 16 May 2002
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PostPosted: 09:42 - 04 Jun 2022    Post subject: Tip for diagnosis problems with ethanol/water in fuel Reply with quote

This is for people who have a carbed bike and are paranoid or concerned about the ethanol mixing with water in the tank and dropping out of suspension in the fuel and leaving you stranded when you switch onto reserve.

Put a few drops of blue food colouring in the tank.

Food colouring will not mix with petrol. It will mix with an ethanol-water mix. So if there is a puddle of dilute ethanol in your tank, it will now be blue. If you're concerned about having this crap sitting in the bottom of your tank, run the bike on reserve for a minute.

If you have a fuel filter, you'll see that it now has blue in it. Alternatively, crack the drain screw on the lowest carb and see if blue stuff comes out.

For the truly paranoid, or for old bikes that spend a lot of time sitting, you can extract the ethanol using water. I mix a litre of water and food colouring with 10L of super unleaded in a plastic container, give it a shake, and leave it overnight. Next day I drain off the blue water and measure it. Super unleaded is up to 5% ethanol, so I can expect to have up to 1.5L of blue water (1L water + 500ml ethanol) to remove. In practice it's more like 300ml ethanol. Now I have ethanol-free petrol which is still high enough octane to work, my old bike only needs 91 RON and the stuff I'm left with should be around 94.
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stinkwheel
Bovine Proctologist



Joined: 12 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: 10:20 - 04 Jun 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Although the dye is probably unecessary, you can usually see water droplets sat in the bottom with a torch or if you drain some fuel from the float bowl into a jam jar.

Some bikes used to have a sediment bowl on the fuel tap, you just unscrewed it to see if it had trapped any water or bits of muck.

Perversely, one of the fixes for water in your fuel is to add some ethanol and shake it up.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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Robby
Dirty Old Man



Joined: 16 May 2002
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PostPosted: 12:17 - 04 Jun 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

The dye helps for seeing it in a transparent filter, or in low light.
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sickpup
Old Timer



Joined: 21 Apr 2004
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PostPosted: 03:19 - 15 Jun 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

stinkwheel wrote:
Perversely, one of the fixes for water in your fuel is to add some ethanol and shake it up.


Pretty sure thats methylated spirits not ethanol.
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stinkwheel
Bovine Proctologist



Joined: 12 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: 13:11 - 15 Jun 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

sickpup wrote:
stinkwheel wrote:
Perversely, one of the fixes for water in your fuel is to add some ethanol and shake it up.


Pretty sure thats methylated spirits not ethanol.


Methylated spirits is 90% ethanol with methanol and some other stuff added to make it purple and nasty to drink.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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sickpup
Old Timer



Joined: 21 Apr 2004
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PostPosted: 14:43 - 15 Jun 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

stinkwheel wrote:
Methylated spirits is 90% ethanol with methanol and some other stuff added to make it purple and nasty to drink.


And it's those other bits from what I gather that means you end up with a mix that stills burns in an engine rather than water that sits separate at the bottom of the tank.
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stinkwheel
Bovine Proctologist



Joined: 12 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: 15:07 - 15 Jun 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

sickpup wrote:


And it's those other bits from what I gather that means you end up with a mix that stills burns in an engine rather than water that sits separate at the bottom of the tank.


Not really, no.

Ethanol will form a solution with water and still burn down to about 40%. So if you had 60ml of water in the bottom of your tank and mixed in 40ml of pure ethanol, it would dissolve in the alcohol and still burn with a blue flame.

It's an actively hygroscopic process at higher concentrations, the ethanol is more stable below 70% so very pure alcohol will actively look for water to dissolve in. If you leave the lid off a bottle of 95% alcohol, it'll absorb water from the atmosphere until it's 70% alcohol, then it becomes more stable. Ethanol will still burn down to 40% at room temperature (you can light sambuca).

Methylated spirits are about 10% methanol too which has similar properties but is even more volatile, it's even more soluable in water but the bulk of it is ethanol.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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