EVs - are they clean?

[Easy-X]

So the tiresome Stuart Fillingham went on one of his epic rants about the proposed anti-tamper legislation. You can listen here if you can be bothered. On the one hand it's the usual "the government want you dead" rants but on the other he points out previous misguided legislation that quietly got dropped when it was realised as unworkable. Anyhoo, one interesting proposition:

Are EVs really as clean as the government and lobby groups would have you believe? I turned up this:

Non-exhaust Particulate Emissions from Road Transport : An Ignored Environmental Policy Challenge

In essence while EVs might produce less CO₂ (as the electricity could potentially be provided by "non-green" sources) their particulate generation is comparable to traditional ICEs. Yes, particulate filters on diesels aren't flawless but more tyre, road and brake wear is expected from EVs as they're heavier. Compared to petrol ICEs one might even argue EVs are worse.

No mention of NO_x in the rant but the latest Euro-spec it's pretty harsh on ICEs in this area, the trend is going in the right direction at least.

So why buy an EV? Less CO₂ and... well that's about it! Wearing my cynical hat this just seems like a re-tread (hehe) of the diesel fiasco
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Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter

[Im-a-Ridah]

EVs use regerative braking so they should be easier on brakes and probably tyres too as there is precise control available of the torque and rpm, depending on how they are set up. The problem with EVs IMO is all the Lithium mining, obvious high cost, and probably limited realistic lifespan of the battery.

[Easy-X]

Should but in practice, not so much. Teslas are very smart as EVs go but they're the exception not the rule.

The point is "zero emissions" really means "zero emissions from the exhaust" and non-exhaust emissions offer a comparable danger from EVs as ICEs.
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Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter

[Bloggsy]

[Im-a-Ridah]

[Ste]

More tyre and road wear because EVs are heavier.

More brake wear because they're heavier doesn't really apply to the smartest EVs like a Tesla but does apply to the average EV that's not got as much regenerative braking tech.

[Fat Angry Scotsman]

[Polarbear]

[Ste]

[chickenstrip]

I just can't see the point in EVs when there's still plenty of oil to be extracted
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[grr666]

[Easy-X]

TBH I don't care much one way or the other for EVs vs. cars. I could probably stand to get a bit shouty about imposed electric motorcycles but I just thought it was interesting as it wasn't an angle I'd heard before.
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Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter

[Polarbear]

[Im-a-Ridah]

[Ste]

[Easy-X]

Rebate's going on cars...

Scrapping of electric car grants sparks backlash

Still staying on vans, taxis and bikes though and still tax benefits to having an EV and the company car market is significant.

Of course the article continues with the propaganda line of "zero emissions" and not the more accurate "zero exhaust emissions."
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Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter

[Easy-X]

A generous article from the BBC:

Fuel prices: Could I save money driving an electric car?

I say "generous" as it at least suggests the carbon-footprint* of manufacturing EVs is worse than their ICE equivalents.

tl;dr while the cost of "filling-up" is half that of petrol the initial purchase price means you won't see any savings for 18~24 months. Yes you might shrink that window buying second hand but batteries have a limited lifetime.

But as ever particulate emissions are completely ignored

*A made up term coined by Climate Change grifters.
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Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter

[A100man]

[Fat Angry Scotsman]

[Ste]

Did you buy it new?

[Easy-X]

Always look at the sharp end I say...

Looking at London all the taxis are either electric or hybrid. All the food deliveries are [uninsured] 125 scooters.

The cold, hard face of Capitalism says electric good for multiple person short journeys and scooter (and by association motorbike) is the most efficient for single person journeys. Fuck ya push bike and train, the market has spoken!

For once I'd like someone in power to acknowledge reality and not pander to special interests, activists or lining their chums pockets
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Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter

[UncleFester]

They may be clean / green but they are NOT cheap. Certainly not cheap enough to warrant ditching a perfectly well running car / bike to get one.

Lithium battery production - clean?
Power generation - clean?
Fire risk - is burning lithium green / clean?
Govt E Grant - disappeared?
E-Tax - inevitable?
Battery tech - future proofed and upgradeable?

I still have yet to see a convincing argument for where the required electricity is going to come from to provide power for all the charging stations that are needed.

If you're going to make it viable you need to be able to charge at the same rate that a tank of petrol takes to fill otherwise all you'll have is queues of people in heavy things with flat batteries.

I did look at a 15Kw battery system for the house and covering the flat roofs in panels ( all are in full Sun all day) but the cost of that is still prohibitive and the sell back to grid isn't good enough.

So unless you want run around in a shit 2nd hand Leaf /Zoe with < 100 mile range at best and only in the summer .....

I'm not even convinced that carbon neutral / carbon offset works as a thing. It's just for rich Western societies to help them over the guilt trip of all the carbon they still produce whilst claiming to be 'net' zero overall.
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Module 1 and 2 passed - October 2014. Happy owner of a 2017 Z1000SX, ex owner of a YBR125 / CB500 / VFR800.

[Im-a-Ridah]

[Easy-X]

I have no problem with EVs as a concept and in the case of taxis - lots of short, stop-start urban travel, multiple occupancy - but it's this hang-up on CO₂ that bothers me.

Exporting your carbon-footprint to other places (manufacturing, electricity generation) has no impact on your local environment as such, it affects the global environment.
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Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter

[chickenstrip]

The whole climate change thing sounds like one big scam to me.

And anyway, all most folks see is it causing them to get poorer, having a harder life. How about actual incentives? You know, tangible ones? Your kids' futures? Yeah, but look what you're doing to them elsewhere
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Chickenystripgeezer's Biking Life (Latest update 19/10/18) Belgium, France, Italy, Austria tour 2016 Picos de Europa, Pyrenees and French Alps tour 2017 Scotland Trip 1, now with BONUS FEATURE edit, 5/10/19, on page 2 Scotland Trip 2 Luxembourg, Black Forest, Switzerland, Vosges Trip 2017
THERE'S MILLIONS OF CHICKENSTRIPS OUT THERE!