Smoking to be banned?

[Polarbear]

Smoking age should rise, government report to say.

The age at which people can buy tobacco products in England should be gradually increased year after year, a review for government is expected to recommend.

If these ideas become law it will basically eradicate smoking in a generation. Raising the age limit each year until no one can buy cigarettes. Now we all know the risks of smoking and I can see why people want it banned. It's dirty, it costs the health service a lot of money, it kills people etc.

Thing to me is wherre does state interference with your life stop? Drink must be next on the agenda. Drugs are already (unsuccessfully) banned. How about motorbikes? They kill people. I'm surprised the IOM TT isn't already closed down.

I guess the nanny state is here to say and as long as the majority get their kicks from something still allowed and the others who expect the state to molly coddle them from birth to death won't give a hoot about erosion of choice or freedoms.

In my liftime we've gone from smoking being cool - Marlboro man, film stars with fags in their mouths to classic movies having smoking airbrushed out. And yes, I used to smoke like a chimney but gave up years ago so I don't have any agenda over this.

I really hate the way society is going in lots of respects but nanny state is something I can't believe is happening with no/hardly any push back, in fact it seems welcomed.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-61718468
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Triumph Trophy Launch Edition

[piazza]

Ive smoked for over 40 years and I'd be fine with a ban.
Switched to tobacco from cigarettes to save money last year and now it's the same price as as cigarettes...I could be smoking more tho

The latest throwaway vapes are pretty damn good! I tried them but I'm just not at that point yet. If I could get hold of a cannabis vape I'd be sorted.

[Diggs]

Tricky one this. As a smoker who chooses not to smoke (I don't believe there is such a thing as an ex-addict of any persuasion...), I too can see why banning tobacco would be a good thing from the point of view of health and public finances. Why should my taxes be spent on extending the lives of smokers. Likewise, why should my taxes be spent on extending the lives of drinkers, porkers, adrenaline junkies etc etc etc...

If one takes it to a logical conclusion, only Joe Wickes should be allowed healthcare, and then only if his injuries aren't as a result of his fitness training. I'd be royally f*cked as I like a drink and a pie!

Out of all of the 'vices', smoking is an easy target as people can't disguise the fact that they smoke and the product has to be imported. Personally I wouldn't ban it as we don't need more legislation and banning it wouldn't stop addicts from obtaining their fix. It has to be made less 'cool' so kids don't start smoking - that would kill it off eventually IMO.
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[Fat Angry Scotsman]

[Polarbear]

Thinking about cost to the NHS. I'm sure I read somewhere that tobacco tax way exceeds the amount tobacco illness costs the NHS.

Yes it does as shown here from 2015- https://fullfact.org/economy/does-smoking-cost-much-it-makes-treasury/

We know they bring in about £12 billion in direct tax revenues, Estimates suggest costs anywhere between £3 billion and £6 billion for NHS treatments in a given year.

So sort of negates a financial reason for doing it.
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Triumph Trophy Launch Edition

[ThunderGuts]

[Easy-X]

Is the ban coming in as smoking is deemed "risky behaviour" or because the market is totally warped and exploitative compared to the stuff dragged over from the New World back in the day?

If it's the former then look forward to bans on motorbikes, fast cars, rock climbing, etc. Risky behaviours that cost a fair bit to get into and/or maintain.

On the other hand highly exploitative marketing would suggest an incoming ban on online gambling. An industry that makes more money and destroys more lives than tobacco ever could, IMHO.
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Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter

[Diggs]

Except that when you read the article, it only estimates the direct cost to the NHS v tax revenue on the sale of legitimate tobacco. It doesn't include other costs to society such as the cost of retraining because a proportion of the population is dying prematurely, lost work days because of smoking-related illnesses, cost to emergency services when smokers accidently set light to their homes etc. I don't suppose the true cost can be calculated.

Also, it doesn't take into account the cost to the planet of maintaining an industry that relies upon the transport of goods in large quantities using internal combustion engines. Nor does it take into account the fact that smokers are likely to use their washing machines more, wash their hair and hands more often, replace items prematurely due to fag burns etc. There will be loads of hidden costs to smoking that we don't appreciate.
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Now - Speed Triple, old ratty GS550, GSXR750M
Gone (in order of ownership) - Raleigh Runabout, AP50, KH125, GP125, KH250, CBX550, Z400, CB750FII, 250LC, GS550, ZXR750H1, Guzzi Targa, GSX750F, KH250 x2, Bimota SB6R and counting...

[Irezumi]

[chickenstrip]

I agree that this is not an easy one.
In a society where what we do can affect others, there is a good argument for a ban in public places at least. But then I think we must also ban alcohol and many other things by that standard. Maybe physical exercise should be made compulsory for all? Ban all processed foods? Where do you stop?
I think it better to leave it at a ban in public places. We've come that far and people are used to the idea. I think the numbers of people who take up smoking is falling all the time anyway because people are generally better educated about the risks.
As to the cost to the NHS - it is the least of that organisation's problems.
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[ThunderGuts]

I think a key difference though with tobacco is unlike alcohol, processed foods, high fat foods etc. etc., enjoying "in moderation" doesn't derisk it. Alcohol consumed at a low level is unlikely to have any negative side effects and indeed holistically there could even be a net benefit, probably why alcohol has been throttled to discourage excess but not remove it completely. Alcohol can also be enjoyed without addiction. Tobacco however is harmful in any quantity; yes you're probably less likely to succumb to something horrible if you smoke 2 a day rather than 20, but you're still increasing the likelihood by loads. This is where the difference is - you can't really derisk tobacco use without removing it completely.

I think the other thing, touched on above, is the effect it has on others. Extreme examples aside, sharing a house with someone who drinks in moderation isn't going to really have any direct effect on the health of others. Smoking on the other hand will, either directly (health) or indirectly (washing clothes more etc..).

These days however I find myself being choked more by passing buses and knackered delivery vans than I do people smoking as I walk around the city.
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TG.

[chickenstrip]

[Nobby the Bastard]

[ThunderGuts]

[Nobby the Bastard]

Try copying and pasting my previous comment into notepad....
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha:"Remember this simple rule - scooters are for men who like to feel the breeze on their huge, flapping cunt lips."
Sprint ST 1050

[Easy-X]

[Ribenapigeon]

Motorcycle manufacturers and mountains are not exploiting our brain chemistry to addict us to riding or climbing them. That's the difference.

[Polarbear]

[Easy-X]

[Freddyfruitba...]

[Bhud]

The black market will grow. It isn't difficult to grow Nicotiana and prepare it into a smokeable product. Whether selling it is ethical or isn't, is another matter. But where there's a demand, the supply will follow.

[Bhud]

[Ribenapigeon]

[Ribenapigeon]

https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Palladium_cigarette

The palladium cigarette. Reaserchers produced a tobacco that had lower levels of tumoricity by adding palladium. The palladium acted as a catalyst more effectively burning the tobacco so producing less toxic substances. Allegedly the research was suppressed by the cigarette industry as by inference it suggested normal ciggies were carcinogenic.

[Irezumi]