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 Posted: 11:05 - 11 Jun 2022  Post subject: |
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Almost 20 years of usage and there's no (unbiased) long term studies?! I'm not sure how, just on general principles, vaping can be as dangerous as cigarettes given they're only nicotine delivery systems and don't generate the wide range of toxins and particulates cigarettes do  I suppose if you were allergic to the flavour additives but I don't believe that to be the same risk factor as a 99.99% certainty of cancer from smoking cigarettes.
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hellkat
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Posted: 11:58 - 11 Jun 2022  Post subject: |
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Bloody Jacinda introduced that in NZ just before Christmas last year.
I think about going home to live, or to spend more time there - and then they let her do dumb shit like that.
I'm not a fan of fags, gave them up years ago.
It's the nanny state thing I don't like at all. With a bit of luck by the time that sort of shite is enforced on society, I'll have pegged it anyway.
Meanwhile, I'll just keep quietly doing whateverrrr.  
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xz7_3n7xyDg
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chickenstrip
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Posted: 12:20 - 11 Jun 2022  Post subject: |
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| hellkat wrote: |
It's the nanny state thing I don't like at all. With a bit of luck by the time that sort of shite is enforced on society, I'll have pegged it anyway.
Meanwhile, I'll just keep quietly doing whateverrrr.
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With the way governments have behaved in the last couple of years, I suspect that will be most people's attitudes.
Anyway, they're crap at policing illegal drugs as it is, what makes them think they'll be better at policing a tobacco ban?
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stinkwheel
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Posted: 11:08 - 13 Jun 2022  Post subject: |
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As a repeated ex-smoker, I'd support a rolling ban, then it'll die out to the point it's not worth stocking any more in most places. You'll still be able to get it if you need it.
Black market not really much of an issue I'd have thought. If the legal market dies out, it wont be worth promoting, the tobacco companies presence will gradually diminish. You don't see much "homegrown" tobacco now, and I'd have thought that would be a bigger thing than it is with the price of tobacco nowadays . I think it would be on a par with making your own beer and wine.
From my point of view, any time I've had a "wobble", it's been a spur of the moment thing and it was all too easy to stop in past the filling station and pick some up. I can't help thinking if it had been only a little bit more difficult to do, the moment would have passed.
I'd maybe even support having a "permit" system where you have to have a photo ID card that lets you buy tobacco. Something you can buy quite cheaply (say a tenner) and no record is kept of who has one beyond the point of issuing it but you do have to send off for it every 12 months and it takes a week to arrive. Like getting a cash and carry card. Just so you can't simply walk into a shop and buy tobacco, you have to make a planned decision to be a smoker.
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chickenstrip
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| Posted: 12:54 - 13 Jun 2022 Post subject: |
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| Ribenapigeon wrote: | | chickenstrip wrote: |
With the way governments have behaved in the last couple of years, I suspect that will be most people's attitudes.
Anyway, they're crap at policing illegal drugs as it is, what makes them think they'll be better at policing a tobacco ban? |
It's always the "nanny" state until its "oh shit, ive come off me bike, my legs broken!!!!! NANNNNYYYY!!!!!! NANNNNYYYYYY!!!!! HEEYYYYYYYELLLPPPP" |
I have a number of health issues I'm living with, and I'm a smoker (I don't drink though, and I exercise a lot, eat reasonably healthily, no junk foods, all my meals are freshly cooked). I haven't been registered with a GP for nearly 7 years, haven't seen one in more than that. Before that, I've been told I need this and that treatment/medication (to do with immune system weakness - supposedly). I don't bother.
After my big bike accident, they could have just left me for dead, I wouldn't have known anything about it. It wasn't like I got a choice in the matter.
When I did actually break my leg when I came off my bike, it was the police who called for an ambulance. I never even mentioned the idea. I was just quietly sitting by the roadside smoking a fag when they turned up 
When I came off my bike and broke my back, lying in the road unable to move, someone called for an ambulance. It wasn't me, I didn't ask anyone to.
Another time I came off a bike, I fractured my wrist. With some help from the guys I'd been racing, I picked the bike up and rode straight to the dealer to get replacement parts for the bike. When I got back to work, it was the RAF who sent me for X-rays and splinted up my wrist. I didn't ask them to.
If I get cancer from smoking, I'd be happy enough to just have whatever drugs might be needed to make me comfortable. If that's not possible, then I'd be happy to be helped to go when things got bad enough. I probably have paid enough in NI contributions to cover that much. If that's not possible then I'll die suffering. Too bad.
Your comment is meaningless to me. If someone decides to scrape up the mess I get myself into, I'm usually not in a state to resist
How about you? You never complain about anything, do you?
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Ribenapigeon
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| Posted: 14:49 - 13 Jun 2022 Post subject: |
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| chickenstrip wrote: |
I have a number of health issues I'm living with, and I'm a smoker (I don't drink though, and I exercise a lot, eat reasonably healthily, no junk foods, all my meals are freshly cooked). I haven't been registered with a GP for nearly 7 years, haven't seen one in more than that. Before that, I've been told I need this and that treatment/medication (to do with immune system weakness - supposedly). I don't bother.
After my big bike accident, they could have just left me for dead, I wouldn't have known anything about it. It wasn't like I got a choice in the matter.
When I did actually break my leg when I came off my bike, it was the police who called for an ambulance. I never even mentioned the idea. I was just quietly sitting by the roadside smoking a fag when they turned up
When I came off my bike and broke my back, lying in the road unable to move, someone called for an ambulance. It wasn't me, I didn't ask anyone to.
Another time I came off a bike, I fractured my wrist. With some help from the guys I'd been racing, I picked the bike up and rode straight to the dealer to get replacement parts for the bike. When I got back to work, it was the RAF who sent me for X-rays and splinted up my wrist. I didn't ask them to.
If I get cancer from smoking, I'd be happy enough to just have whatever drugs might be needed to make me comfortable. If that's not possible, then I'd be happy to be helped to go when things got bad enough. I probably have paid enough in NI contributions to cover that much. If that's not possible then I'll die suffering. Too bad.
Your comment is meaningless to me. If someone decides to scrape up the mess I get myself into, I'm usually not in a state to resist
How about you? You never complain about anything, do you? |
I'll get back to you when I've finished nannying someone with multiple disabilities back from his therapeutic activity centre. Im on a bus, my list of complaints is increasing exponentially. |
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chickenstrip
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| Posted: 14:52 - 13 Jun 2022 Post subject: |
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| Ribenapigeon wrote: |
I'll get back to you when I've finished nannying someone with multiple disabilities back from his therapeutic activity centre. Im on a bus, my list of complaints is increasing exponentially. |
How thoughtless of them to impinge on your time like that
If you don't like doing it, get another job.
Bus wanker
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Bhud
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| Posted: 19:37 - 13 Jun 2022 Post subject: |
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| stinkwheel wrote: | You don't see much "homegrown" tobacco now, and I'd have thought that would be a bigger thing than it is with the price of tobacco nowadays . I think it would be on a par with making your own beer and wine. |
It would make a lot of sense to grow some, given the mind-boggling price of a pack of cigarettes.
However, I suppose it's like making your own beer and wine. Most people don't bother, because you can always grab something slightly better than you can make, in the shops. In the case of beer and wine, the shop-bought stuff will simply be better than an amateur can make at home. I'm starting a new batch (white wine) tonight, and I know it will be OK, but only comparable with bottom shelf, bottom of the market, supermarket plonk, when it's done. Perhaps it's the same in the case of tobacco. I heard that they add extra nicotine to the cigarettes, plus a combo of accelerants and flavourings which all enhance the experience. If that's true, then homegrown tobacco won't give the user the same gratification.
Don't know if time is another factor: the idea of smoking being an immediate sense of relief and gratification, and waiting a few months for a crop, then another few weeks to cure the leaves, may be offputting to a cigarette smoker. If they haven't got time to pack a pipe then maybe they haven't got time to grow anything.
Whatever the case, there must be some reason why tobacco is so infrequently homegrown. People go to extraordinary lengths to grow cannabis, which is a much harder plant to cultivate in this climate. And homemade tobacco products should, in theory, be profitable. |
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chickenstrip
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| Posted: 19:44 - 13 Jun 2022 Post subject: |
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| stinkwheel wrote: |
I think smoking is a special case. It's not actually a pleasurable activity. The pleasure is in taking away the slightly shitty feeling that was caused by the previous nicotine hit wearing off. It seems like you feel better after a fag but you're actually feeling like you would if you had never smoked. You build all manner of mental dependancies around it about how it helps you deal with stress or it stops you being bored, but that's all bullshit. It's straight-up nicotine addiction and your brain has convinced itself you need it.
I think most smokers would agree that if they could go back in time, slap that first fag out of their hand and have a long hard word with themself, they'd do it. |
Whilst I think that's largely true, it's not the point. We're talking about whether or not it is up to government to decide whether or not smoking should be banned. My position is that it is not the government's job to protect us. It is their job to run the country in the way that the majority of the population want it run.
Something else to consider is that where the government reaps a large tax revenue, if it loses that it will seek to make it up elsewhere.
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| Posted: 19:59 - 13 Jun 2022 Post subject: |
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| Bhud wrote: | People go to extraordinary lengths to grow cannabis, which is a much harder plant to cultivate in this climate. |
Oh no it isn't!
I once had some nice weed which contained a lot of shiny, healthy-looking grey-green seeds, so I thought, why not give it a shot. I planted 90 seeds thinking I'd get a handful of plants. All 90 quickly grew into healthy-looking plants. I grew them in cheap pots indoors, three to a pot, with no special lighting or any specialist or expensive techniques, just the light coming through the windows, a compost/perlite mix to grow them in, and a bit of Baby Bio plant food now and again.
And when all 90 came up, after a while I thought, oh shit, this is a bit much to sustain in a small flat, plus I got a bit paranoid about a helicopter that seemed to be hanging around over the neighbourhood one day I binned the lot.
Most illegal cannabis farms that get busted in this country seem to be indoor grows with lighting of the proper spectrum, and various other hydroponic techniques. These people go to great lengths because there is a lot of money to be made, but it really doesn't take much to grow a few decent plants for own use. I'd probably try again if my situation was more convenient for it.
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Bhud
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| Posted: 20:12 - 13 Jun 2022 Post subject: |
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| chickenstrip wrote: | I got a bit paranoid about a helicopter that seemed to be hanging around over the neighbourhood one day |
Tragic.
I must say, I have never been so lucky in my silly amateur attempts, many years ago. Your first lucky break was getting a huge number of viable seeds in the pot. Nowadays, seeds from a seedbank cost a lot of money (so much so that they're sold individually sometimes), and I think to get a reasonable yield you have no choice but to manipulate the hours of light to force it to flower. Then you have to give it fertilisers, and cycle it with water for a few days to flush it, before you can harvest it. Clearly, it must be profitable despite this, as it's a preferred, widespread thing among all sections of society. However, tobacco would be much cheaper to grow.
Just a thought: weed might be the way the tobacco industry gets to continue into the future. If everyone seems to be OK with weed nowadays but hates tobacco, they might be encouraged to mix the two, for a milder and more pleasant effect. |
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| Posted: 20:21 - 13 Jun 2022 Post subject: |
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I don't know if my plants would have flowered. The (ludicrous) plan was to wait till the plants indicated sex, then bin all the male ones. I hadn't considered how big they might get to before they indicated...90 plants...small rented flat...
I think for really good quality weed, you need to be fairly particular about light cycles and all the other stuff, and a lot of people are now used to strong skunk strains. But for a reasonable hit of the level of the stuff we used to get pre-skunk-'revolution'...dunno, maybe you could grow something half decent on the cheap. It isn't called 'weed' for nothing after all. That's all it really was for me - an experiment to see if I could do it.
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hellkat
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| Posted: 23:52 - 13 Jun 2022 Post subject: |
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Back in the day, everybody smoked the leaves and got high enough.
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| Posted: 02:14 - 14 Jun 2022 Post subject: |
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Looking back I don't regret smoking. Maybe I'd have given up a few years earlier
I'd be 100% up for factory made cigarettes being banned outright but leaving non-chemical/organic-grown/home-grown tobacco totally alone. Adulterated cigarettes/tobacco should never have been allowed IMHO.
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| Posted: 12:11 - 14 Jun 2022 Post subject: |
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Uh-oh...
Vaping - is it a risk-free option?
Daft question for a start, no activity is risk-free. Even walking down the street one might encounter a "lorry of peace" 
But this is the new "vaping as a fashion accessory" and all the pre-packaged shite churned out by the ex-tobacco companies. Not sure how I feel about "never-smokers" taking up vaping. Certainly the ex-smokers I know have a completely different attitude.
Looking at the problems people have it sounds more like an allergic reaction to the propylene glycol component
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chickenstrip
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| Posted: 12:27 - 14 Jun 2022 Post subject: |
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Tbh, I think the only reason we're talking about this subject again is because the politicians want to throw another distraction out there, get people to look away from the mess they're making with the things that really matter to most. The age-old phrase, "fiddling while Rome burns" springs to mind.
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| Posted: 15:29 - 14 Jun 2022 Post subject: |
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Well yes "proportional response" is a forgotten phrase these days. Food allergies lead to ~10 deaths per year in the UK. You could count on one hand suspected vaping related deaths. Smoking related deaths? Tens of thousands per year 
Proportional response...
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| Posted: 17:25 - 14 Jun 2022 Post subject: |
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| Easy-X wrote: | Smoking related deaths? Tens of thousands per year |
Don't worry about it. They're not the sort of people we want around anyway.
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The last post was made 1 year, 309 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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