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Bleeding CBF 600 N 2006 P38 with ABS

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dsg10715
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Joined: 29 Dec 2017
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PostPosted: 04:42 - 15 Jun 2022    Post subject: Bleeding CBF 600 N 2006 P38 with ABS Reply with quote

Ladies and Gents,

I've bled my brakes on my Honda CBF600 P38 with ABS many times traditionally, and with a Motion Pro Mini Bleeder. My Haynes says I need to use "special equipment", which I'm scratching my head at - since I've been riding it for years without a hitch. But maybe I've pushed the problem off?

I contacted Motion Pro who said their valve - which prevents air from running back into the line - accomplished the same goals as a vacuum bleeder.

Does anyone have an educated POV on this? I guess I can take it into the shop, I'm not some super mechanic, but I hate spending coin on changing brakes and fluids, which is a listening-to-a-podcast-gig (usually, for me).

Many thanks in advance for any enlightenment.
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davebike
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PostPosted: 07:17 - 15 Jun 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK as a pro I have vacuum bleeder and a low pressure reverse bleed system
I never encountered a Honda that will not bleed with a simple Tube long enough to go from calliper bleed scared up as high as the master cylinder and back down
Most common problem as the master cylinder air locked and not pumping I remove lines and use a rag and finger to prime

What is your issue ??
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 08:44 - 15 Jun 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its if it was fully drained and the ABS pump needs bleeding. You may need to use the equivelent to an ODB reader for your bike to do it and suitable software.
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Ste
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Joined: 01 Sep 2002
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PostPosted: 11:29 - 15 Jun 2022    Post subject: Re: Bleeding CBF 600 N 2006 P38 with ABS Reply with quote

dsg10715 wrote:
My Haynes says I need to use "special equipment", which I'm scratching my head at - since I've been riding it for years without a hitch. But maybe I've pushed the problem off?

What special equipment does Mr. Haynes say you should be using?
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 11:31 - 15 Jun 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

I looked into this for my Yamaha. AFAIK you need an OBD-2 device that activates the ABS test-mode so probably specific to each manufacturer.
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Ste
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PostPosted: 11:33 - 15 Jun 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

davebike wrote:
low pressure reverse bleed system

Isn't that called a syringe?
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P.
Red Rocket



Joined: 14 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: 12:30 - 15 Jun 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Easy-X wrote:
I looked into this for my Yamaha. AFAIK you need an OBD-2 device that activates the ABS test-mode so probably specific to each manufacturer.


That is what the Ford C-Max needed...apparently.

We didn't use it in the end and just bled through with the engine on and brakes being pumped. Cracked each pipe off the ABS unit until they started to dribble, then bled normal from caliper.
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dsg10715
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PostPosted: 13:29 - 15 Jun 2022    Post subject: Re: Bleeding CBF 600 N 2006 P38 with ABS Reply with quote

It just says special equipment. I've done more research and I've never seen so many opinions on this. It always befuddles me when something mechanical is as fungible as one's position on religion.

What I've come up with - from Stahlbus in Germany - is that older systems needed to be electronically tricked into flushing fluid, but recent systems with no dedicated ABS bleeder can be bled - ridden to flush ABS a bit more, bled again and good to go. Given that I bled them twice = once with an old school mechanic doing it the old way - and last time with the Mini Bleeder - and have had firm brakes forever I'm calling Bullshit on the special equipment and going with Stahlbus. I could be wrong.

Ste wrote:
dsg10715 wrote:
My Haynes says I need to use "special equipment", which I'm scratching my head at - since I've been riding it for years without a hitch. But maybe I've pushed the problem off?

What special equipment does Mr. Haynes say you should be using?
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dsg10715
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PostPosted: 13:33 - 15 Jun 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

My issue is I've bled twice with no problems at all - but the Haynes projects doom and gloom by claiming a mechanic has to bleed these out. I'm only looking because I have to replace my brake pads and going to do it all at once. I don't know why I cracked my Haynes but they got into my head on the bleeding. Then I did research and have a list of about twenty different opinions on the matter which scares the f**k out of me. There should be no daylight between one fact and mechanics...but this - as I noted - seems like a subjective matter in motorcycling world and I don't want to pay someone to do a bleed job I've done before, but I'm terrified I somehow have created an issue bleeding with my Motion Pro Mini Bleeder and not some super secret awesome technical equipment that no one in their right mind would buy, and one day my ABS will self destruct.

davebike wrote:
OK as a pro I have vacuum bleeder and a low pressure reverse bleed system
I never encountered a Honda that will not bleed with a simple Tube long enough to go from calliper bleed scared up as high as the master cylinder and back down
Most common problem as the master cylinder air locked and not pumping I remove lines and use a rag and finger to prime

What is your issue ??
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Easy-X
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Joined: 08 Mar 2019
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PostPosted: 16:39 - 15 Jun 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brake master => ABS unit => Brake pistons

And the ABS unit by default (unpowered) runs in bypass mode. It'd have to! If your bike dies and you have no electrical power you'd still want brakes Smile

So unless you completely drain your brake system so there's air everywhere - including the ABS unit - bleeding the system as if the ABS wasn't there would just leave some old fluid inside the ABS unit. Relative to the rest of the system it's a thimble to a bucket, i.e. neither here nor there.
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dsg10715
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PostPosted: 16:58 - 15 Jun 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is what my research seems to indicate, and with your very cogent explanation I am breathing a sigh of relief.

Would you recommend doing the ride and re-bleed? Or is the thimble really negligible? Given I've ridden through two sets of brakes with traditional bleeding with nary an accident, I'm inclined to believe the thimble is inconsequential.

Thank you for the straightforward explanation.

Easy-X wrote:
Brake master => ABS unit => Brake pistons

And the ABS unit by default (unpowered) runs in bypass mode. It'd have to! If your bike dies and you have no electrical power you'd still want brakes Smile

So unless you completely drain your brake system so there's air everywhere - including the ABS unit - bleeding the system as if the ABS wasn't there would just leave some old fluid inside the ABS unit. Relative to the rest of the system it's a thimble to a bucket, i.e. neither here nor there.
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