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to v or not to v
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PostPosted: 09:26 - 10 Jul 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
why would you trust your wellbeing to a computer salesman?
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 11:01 - 10 Jul 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
chickenstrip wrote:
I'm aware that there's a lot of dislike for Gates, but haven't chased it down myself. What are the specific complaints?

He’s rich, and ironically no amount of philanthropy can make up for that, for some.

I would agree that like many of the privileged he’s a hypocrite, taking his private jet around the world to preach on climate change, for example. He’s got three children, that’s one more than is necessary to maintain the population.

However, on the matter of healthcare his money and influence is exactly the kind of thing the pharma industry needs to let it tackle the high risk/relatively low return projects which can make a big difference to people’s lives.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 12:32 - 10 Jul 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:
chickenstrip wrote:
I'm aware that there's a lot of dislike for Gates, but haven't chased it down myself. What are the specific complaints?

He’s rich, and ironically no amount of philanthropy can make up for that, for some.


Rich is good. I want to be rich, don't you? If I achieved it out of my own hard work and ingenuity, without hurting others, i'd be comfortable with it.

Quote:
I would agree that like many of the privileged he’s a hypocrite, taking his private jet around the world to preach on climate change, for example. He’s got three children, that’s one more than is necessary to maintain the population.


He'd be better off spending his money on technologies that help to reduce pollution. He could invest in Rolls Royce to build us a few of these small nuclear power plants for e.g., and/or spend some on more viable ways of dealing with the waste from nuclear power generation.

Quote:
However, on the matter of healthcare his money and influence is exactly the kind of thing the pharma industry needs to let it tackle the high risk/relatively low return projects which can make a big difference to people’s lives.


If governments insist that everyone has to have certain treatments, the pharma companies should be raking in plenty.
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 12:44 - 10 Jul 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
chickenstrip wrote:
If governments insist that everyone has to have certain treatments, the pharma companies should be raking in plenty.

You’re back to the idea of force again. Even in the longest-running pandemic you could choose to say no to vaccination. There was persuasion, but not compulsion. Still we’re supposed to believe that Gates is some kind of Bond villain.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 13:17 - 10 Jul 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:
chickenstrip wrote:
If governments insist that everyone has to have certain treatments, the pharma companies should be raking in plenty.

You’re back to the idea of force again. Even in the longest-running pandemic you could choose to say no to vaccination. There was persuasion, but not compulsion. Still we’re supposed to believe that Gates is some kind of Bond villain.


The persuasion worked rather well though, didn't it? And of course, as long as no one lost their livelihoods over it Smile
Have we ever seen such a high profile campaign before? I don't recall one in my lifetime.

I still don't know much about Gates. Is he just getting too much attention?
I am curious about all this farmland we're told he's buying up in the States though. Is he keeping it productive?
There has been some talk of having a few very large food production hubs around the world, rather than lots of independent farms (seems like this wouldn't be the first time that has been tried, although not on a worldwide basis). Hence Dutch farmers being targeted, and maybe Gates could be one of the collectives? Makes for a good conspiracy theory, don't you think? Laughing
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Im-a-Ridah
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PostPosted: 16:31 - 10 Jul 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
chickenstrip wrote:
I'm aware that there's a lot of dislike for Gates, but haven't chased it down myself. What are the specific complaints?


He seems very interested in engineering society to dance to his tune, but uinlike most people with that kind of aim he can actually do it. The most suspicious to me personally is his involvement with education but I wouldn't much trust him with healthcare either.

Not really bothered about him being rich or supporting contraception/abortion. Covid vaccines are fine, but better with him nowhere near them.
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 17:03 - 10 Jul 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
chickenstrip wrote:
Have we ever seen such a high profile campaign before? I don't recall one in my lifetime.

Well, exactly. It was a pandemic after all.

The same people criticising the vaccination campaign and lockdowns would be up in arms if there had been no government response. You can’t win with some people. Likewise if Bill Gates wasn’t engaging in philanthropic activities which are interpreted as dastardly plans he’d be criticised for being a selfish, rich bastard.
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 17:13 - 10 Jul 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
The HIV information campaign was quite comprehensive as well.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 18:00 - 10 Jul 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:



The same people criticising the vaccination campaign and lockdowns would be up in arms if there had been no government response. You can’t win with some people. Likewise if Bill Gates wasn’t engaging in philanthropic activities which are interpreted as dastardly plans he’d be criticised for being a selfish, rich bastard.


Opinions, opinions Laughing

Maybe some people just thought that the responses to the pandemic were often the wrong responses, rather than thinking there should have been none.
Maybe Bill Gates could do his philanthropic work and not have anyone make a big fuss about it. He could keep it low key. I mean, I presume he's not doing it for himself?

I still don't know of any specific things he has said or done that tell me anything much about him. People say he influences vaccine programs. Well, that doesn't seem to be a bad thing in itself, it just depends on how he influences them, how he might change outcomes, and I think some have legitimate questions about his expertise in the field to have any kind of influence.

My opinion ( Smile ) is that a lot of people have been persuaded to have these Covid vaccines that didn't need to. I don't know if Gates has been involved in that. Others were wise to have them. They have presented some level of risk of their own, but life is never without risk. But I think a lot was claimed about them before it was known for sure, and still continues to be. And many of the responses to those who have doubts have been in the form of insult and personal attack, even those with expertise in that field being attacked by those with none - want to immediately arouse suspicions? That's a good way to go about it. I don't see how those kinds of responses will bring people on side.

It's about seeing things in balance, even when things seem to be bad, and it's about allowing the conversations to be had without rancour. It is possible to disagree with someone without seeing them as an enemy of some kind, and if you're going to claim the intellectual high ground, you need to show that you have earned it.

For e.g., as far as I can make out, there is not one single person on this forum with any expertise in the field of vaccinations, much less these somewhat controversial ones. This extends to many other subjects we talk about here on BCF, and all of us should remain conscious of that. We can have opinions, but we should keep open minds, whichever side of an argument we are on. That is seemingly what we are losing.
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 18:10 - 10 Jul 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
chickenstrip wrote:
Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:
The same people criticising the vaccination campaign and lockdowns would be up in arms if there had been no government response. You can’t win with some people. Likewise if Bill Gates wasn’t engaging in philanthropic activities which are interpreted as dastardly plans he’d be criticised for being a selfish, rich bastard.


Opinions, opinions Laughing

Maybe some people just thought that the responses to the pandemic were often the wrong responses, rather than thinking there should have been none.

So you’ve a view on what response would have been commensurate with the risk? Let’s hear it.

chickenstrip wrote:
Maybe Bill Gates could do his philanthropic work and not have anyone make a big fuss about it. He could keep it low key. I mean, I presume he's not doing it for himself?

When has promotion of an idea ever meant ‘low key’?

chickenstrip wrote:
I still don't know of any specific things he has said or done that tell me anything much about him. People say he influences vaccine programs. Well, that doesn't seem to be a bad thing in itself, it just depends on how he influences them, how he might change outcomes, and I think some have legitimate questions about his expertise in the field to have any kind of influence.

All based on the assumption of some evil motive. Why cant you accept that he might have good intentions and a shed load of money to make those happen?
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 18:59 - 10 Jul 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:

So you’ve a view on what response would have been commensurate with the risk? Let’s hear it.


Simple. Provide information, and advice, protect the vulnerable, and let the fit and healthy get on with their lives, with the caveat that I don't so much disagree with the first lockdown since then we really didn't know what we were dealing with, but I don't think we should have had the subsequent ones, and the restrictions on businesses and society in general, and the way they were enforced were silly. Too much micro-management by government.

Quote:

When has promotion of an idea ever meant ‘low key’?


What exactly is he promoting?

Quote:

All based on the assumption of some evil motive. Why cant you accept that he might have good intentions and a shed load of money to make those happen?


You have misinterpreted me. I have said more than once that I don't know much about him, but you have decided I have this opinion that you have thought up yourself for me. Jury's out for me.

Anyway, you work for a pharmaceutical company so I don't believe a word you say Laughing
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 19:07 - 10 Jul 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Firstly, I broadly agree with your first paragraph.

Secondly, what is Gates promoting? Healthcare.

Regarding “evil motive,” others on here have implied this. I’m pleased that you haven’t leapt to that silly conclusion.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 21:04 - 10 Jul 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:


Regarding “evil motive,” others on here have implied this. I’m pleased that you haven’t leapt to that silly conclusion.


How could I? No one has been able to point out anything specific that he has said or done to draw that or any other conclusion. Just vague accusations of "involvement".
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 21:42 - 10 Jul 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
He funded the development of the successful anti-malarial drug Krintafel.
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Im-a-Ridah
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PostPosted: 23:30 - 10 Jul 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
chickenstrip wrote:
Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:


Regarding “evil motive,” others on here have implied this. I’m pleased that you haven’t leapt to that silly conclusion.


How could I? No one has been able to point out anything specific that he has said or done to draw that or any other conclusion. Just vague accusations of "involvement".


You want us to provide a link to a speech where he explains his secret motivations and plans? Surely the idea is to keep such things secret?

Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:
chickenstrip wrote:
Have we ever seen such a high profile campaign before? I don't recall one in my lifetime.

Well, exactly. It was a pandemic after all.

The same people criticising the vaccination campaign and lockdowns would be up in arms if there had been no government response. You can’t win with some people. Likewise if Bill Gates wasn’t engaging in philanthropic activities which are interpreted as dastardly plans he’d be criticised for being a selfish, rich bastard.


Nobody is saying he isn't doing good things, just that it is suspicious. I'm sure Sir Jimmy helped some kids at those hospitals too...
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 00:39 - 11 Jul 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Im-a-Ridah wrote:

Nobody is saying he isn't doing good things, just that it is suspicious.


It is suspicious when somebody does good? Confused

If you want me to believe he is up to no good, give me something concrete. I don't place it beyond the bounds of possibility that he might conceivably do more harm than good, given the way so many of these drivers of globalist agendas (for want of a better way to put it) seem to behave, but I have nothing to go on with Gates.

At least tell me what your suspicions are, and why you hold them - can you do that much?
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Im-a-Ridah
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PostPosted: 01:01 - 11 Jul 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
chickenstrip wrote:


It is suspicious when somebody does good? Confused


Quite often actually Laughing

But Bill much more so.

chickenstrip wrote:

If you want me to believe he is up to no good, give me something concrete. I don't place it beyond the bounds of possibility that he might conceivably do more harm than good, given the way so many of these drivers of globalist agendas (for want of a better way to put it) seem to behave, but I have nothing to go on with Gates.

At least tell me what your suspicions are, and why you hold them - can you do that much?


I don't think his motivations are pure. He seems to be doing this for the praise and approval of the metropolitan elite social circle he moves in. You'll see the term "equity" which roughly translated means "equal or better" as opposed to equality. There is no central grand conspiracy or key objective that I am aware of such as "kill off group X" or "take over country Y".
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 01:11 - 11 Jul 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Im-a-Ridah wrote:


I don't think his motivations are pure. He seems to be doing this for the praise and approval of the metropolitan elite social circle he moves in. You'll see the term "equity" which roughly translated means "equal or better" as opposed to equality. There is no central grand conspiracy or key objective that I am aware of such as "kill off group X" or "take over country Y".


In other words, you don't know any more about him than I do, you just don't like him for some reason that you can't give me, other than...suspicions. Good job I've got lots of time to waste, or I'd be asking you for a refund Laughing
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Im-a-Ridah
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PostPosted: 01:52 - 11 Jul 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
chickenstrip wrote:

In other words, you don't know any more about him than I do, you just don't like him for some reason that you can't give me, other than...suspicions. Good job I've got lots of time to waste, or I'd be asking you for a refund Laughing


Yes. I find him suspicious. You got what you paid for. He is both specifically and generally suspicious.

Maybe ask William for the refund instead? Laughing
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