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OpenAdvice |
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OpenAdvice L Plate Warrior
Joined: 07 Aug 2022 Karma :
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Posted: 12:11 - 07 Aug 2022 Post subject: Collision with Bike, 40Mph Road, filtering or? |
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All,
First off I am not a biker, I have come here for advice, and am open to criticism and dialogue. Not arrogant in any way.
Background, travelling on 40mph urban road, speed at about 30-35mph as traffic was moderate. I am with my daughter keeping good clearance to other traffic as expected.
Biker comes up and occupies right hand turn only lane adjacent me, with bollards blocking onward forward travel in this lane. I will say here I watched him come up, and am aware of traffic around me.
He then pulls into my offiside area, extremely close. Evidently this has created a collision hazard. I beeped horn to get his attention.
And boy did it, he then pulls directly infront of me, and brakes, forcing me into curb. No surprises what happens next. Remember I can’t see his brake light clearly he is that close. Dash cam does as it’s angled.
Verbal altercation takes place, he then makes sure car is damaged by smashing wing mirror and pulling off.
I’m not after an argument and only posting this on a bikers forum for pointers. And yes I am aware of filtering being legal, but travelling as normal speed in urban roads? I thought that was illegal to overtake on town roads if traffic is moving at normal and safe speed?
I was always taught to give a bike as much space as a car, but what if that bike occupies the same space as that car?
Screen shots attached, will attempt to upload whole video if I can also. Uncut.
Views? Opinions? Safe?
Edit:- Firstly many thanks for feed back, I'm not a drama queen and won't be posting the video on YouTube as part of some vendetta, but I can assure you I am pi**ed off rightly, and shook up as with daughter.
As not uploading video, have added a series of photos mere seconds apart showing timeline. I don't have rear facing cam, so understand if people think there may have been an earlier incident. Perhaps in my mitigation if you look at the seperation between myself and the car in front it doesn't change which indicates my constant speed and normal driving.
However if you look at how bloody close he comes in on his overtake, you'll see I'm effectively forced into the curb, as he realises the right hand turn only lane has a blocking bollard.
The sequential all happens in 4 seconds or so...and how close.....
Read images as 1a, 1b etc
I'll leave this here now and get on with life and try to make my daughter understand that driving is essential for where we live, she's learning now....and shook up also. ____________________ OpenAdvice
Last edited by OpenAdvice on 08:25 - 08 Aug 2022; edited 1 time in total |
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doggone |
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doggone World Chat Champion
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Nobby the Bastard |
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Nobby the Bastard Harley Gaydar
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Pete. |
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Pete. Super Spammer
Joined: 22 Aug 2006 Karma :
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Posted: 12:57 - 07 Aug 2022 Post subject: |
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If he brake tested you bcause you beepd him then it's just his own stupid fault plain ad simple. You ARE within you're rights to beep someone if they are getting so close that you might have a risk of colliding but only if you think that they are not aware of how close they have got, not as an admonishment. The biker deliberately reacting by putting himself in your way and braking heavily if that's what he did is his problem though.
However, if you reacted to his reaction by perhaps not making enough effort to avoid him, maybe by letting your motor roll up very close on the brakes just to make a point, then you're just as guilty as him and in fact with the new law recently passed defining the 'chain of vulnerability' for want of a better term then you might find youself more culpable.
If your video shows that he braked hard enough and close enough so that you had no chance to avoid a collision then you're alomost certainly in the clear. If not, you're probably looking at a split liability.
One thing in your favour is that he should not have been overtaking you at a junction, which he must have been doing according to your description. ____________________ a.k.a 'Geri'
132.9mph off and walked away. Gear is good, gear is good, gear is very very good |
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Pete. |
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Pete. Super Spammer
Joined: 22 Aug 2006 Karma :
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Posted: 13:05 - 07 Aug 2022 Post subject: |
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Let's say a person is passing a +10mph, a reasonable overtake rate for a urban road. That's 4.4metres/second. First and last photos are 4 seconds apart but the bike is in the same position. Even at +5mph delta-v he should be 9 metres away.
Either the car has sped up to the bike or the bike has deliberately slowed mid-overtake. My guess is the biker's a moron. ____________________ a.k.a 'Geri'
132.9mph off and walked away. Gear is good, gear is good, gear is very very good |
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha |
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha World Chat Champion
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dn38416 |
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dn38416 Nitrous Nuisance
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WD Forte |
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WD Forte World Chat Champion
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symonh2000 |
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symonh2000 Crazy Courier
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kolu |
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kolu Nova Slayer
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MarJay |
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MarJay But it's British!
Joined: 15 Sep 2003 Karma :
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Posted: 09:04 - 08 Aug 2022 Post subject: |
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Filtering is legal and I'd give a rough rule of thumb that filtering in traffic of speeds up to 40mph is usually reasonably safe.
Could you have done better? Maybe. You might have just backed off when he overtook. That's what I would have done. All things pass, and as long as you reduce the risk of collision that's all that matters.
From a self protection standpoint there's thousands of unhinged idiots out there, people having a bad day, people who just broke up with their partners, people who can't afford their gas bill, people whose cat woke them up at 3am... whatever. It's usually best not to use the horn unless it's absolutely necessary as quite a lot of people will take it as an admonishment (as most people seem to use it this way these days). It doesn't make the motorcyclist somehow right to do what he did, but it's nevertheless true.
It's also true to say that from the interior of a car most manoeuvres by motorcyclists do look completely insane, when in reality they are well calculated and executed and in most cases perfectly safe. It's impossible for a car driver who has never ridden a motorcycle to judge the safety of a manoeuvre by a motorcycle. I'm not just saying that for hyperbole, I've seen and experienced it from both sides and have been riding bikes for 24 years and driving cars for 25.
There are bad motorcyclists out there, but they don't usually last long before they give up because 'all car drivers are idiots' or 'I got pulled out on ten times last week' or they are injured (or worse). Studies have shown that on average motorcyclists are superior car drivers to the majority of the car driving population, and that is down to observation, anticipation and hazard avoidance. It's usually quite hard-learned too. ____________________ British beauty: Triumph Street Triple R; Loony stroker: KR1S; Track fun: GSXR750 L1; Commuter Missile: GSX-S1000F
Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another. |
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BRUN |
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BRUN Trackday Trickster
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doggone |
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doggone World Chat Champion
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Posted: 09:41 - 08 Aug 2022 Post subject: |
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It's easy to misinterpret as a rebuke, which is specifically mentioned in Highway code.
In this country horns are pretty much last resort only used when a crash is about to unavoidably happen |
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Fat Angry Scotsman |
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Fat Angry Scotsman World Chat Champion
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha |
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha World Chat Champion
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Hetzer Super Spammer
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ThunderGuts |
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ThunderGuts World Chat Champion
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Freddyfruitba... |
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Freddyfruitba... World Chat Champion
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Posted: 12:25 - 08 Aug 2022 Post subject: |
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Again, not condoning the biker's aggression in any way, but here's my take. Hard to make out much from the pics TBH - video needed.
Looking at the first couple of photos, judging by the space either side of the car in front, ie between the kerb and the car, and between the car and the bollard, then there would actually have been ample space for both you and the bike to pass through that gap side by side. You say you were aware of him coming up behind, so you could easily have simply eased over to the left slightly to let him through, had you chosen to do so. My guess is that's what the biker was expecting/hoping for, so he was pissed off when you made a point of blocking that from happening (because you thought what he was doing was illegal/dangerous/irritating/whatever.) Furthermore, you used the horn to express your displeasure ("make him aware of your presence, yeah right") which further escalated things.
Fat Angry Scotsman wrote: | That doesn't excuse the biker's reaction afterwards but applying Occam's Razor, I have deduced that the most likely truth is you are both cunts |
This ____________________ KC100->CB100N->CB250RS--------->DL650AL2->R1200RS->R1250RS |
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WD Forte |
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WD Forte World Chat Champion
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BRUN |
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BRUN Trackday Trickster
Joined: 10 Oct 2020 Karma :
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Posted: 13:23 - 08 Aug 2022 Post subject: |
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looking at this again, between seq 4 and 5, the position of the biker relative to you has barely changed at all, a bike can accelerate a lot quicker than most cars, in most cases, yet a distance has been travelled between the 2 pictures so it certainly looks to me you have sped up to match the bikes speed, rather than just letting them merge
that, coupled with the use of the horn, would have had the biker raging
were very vulnerable on a bike, let off the throttle and let the bike in, if the biker hadnt checked their mirrors then looking at the pictures they would have come back in hitting the front wing of your car |
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Feasty |
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Feasty World Chat Champion
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Posted: 13:46 - 08 Aug 2022 Post subject: |
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BRUN wrote: | looking at this again, between seq 4 and 5, the position of the biker relative to you has barely changed at all, a bike can accelerate a lot quicker than most cars, in most cases, yet a distance has been travelled between the 2 pictures so it certainly looks to me you have sped up to match the bikes speed, rather than just letting them merge
that, coupled with the use of the horn, would have had the biker raging
were very vulnerable on a bike, let off the throttle and let the bike in, if the biker hadnt checked their mirrors then looking at the pictures they would have come back in hitting the front wing of your car |
Completely agree on this, and it looks like the screenshots follow on in order from seq 5 which again makes it appear that you sped up because you weren't happy at being overtaken at that point - cue angry biker.
I will say I'd never overtake at that point with traffic moving at speed as it isn't filtering and the biker is in the wrong. Plus he shouldn't have damaged your car in reaction.
But just think about it in context - yes, your daughter (and you) was probably pretty scared at the turn of events. But that's the extent to her/your pain, being safely enclosed in a metal box. The biker's life is far more precarious and even if they're in the wrong and made a mistake, back off and give them lots of room. 2 minutes later and they'll be gone, back out of your life. ____________________ Previous: Aprilia Habana Retro 50cc (beauty), Yamaha SR125 (fell apart), Honda XR125 (nippy little commuter), Honda SLR650 (Geewhizz), Yamaha Diversion 900S (Smoooooth) written off courtesy of a stupid escaped horse.
(7 year gap), BMW F650 (Relaxing ride). Aprilia Caponord ETV1000 (Big and bold). Yamaha FZS600 (got me in trouble too quick!).
Current: Yamaha TDM 900 (Comfy, light but big, power when needed). |
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha |
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha World Chat Champion
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MarJay But it's British!
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Nobby the Bastard |
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Nobby the Bastard Harley Gaydar
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kgm World Chat Champion
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 1 year, 258 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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