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Ukraine war and when Russia will collaps?

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MCN
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PostPosted: 15:23 - 26 Jan 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

Val wrote:
Val wrote:


I bet Olaf Scholz made Biden send the M1 to Ukraine!



I was right. According to senior US official a transatlantic tank deal have been struck between Biden and Schloz.

Means all now should praise Olaf Scholz and give him the credit for pushing Biden to deliver M1 Abrams.

You will not read that in Daily Heil or any other brirish media though, its way to easy to present germans as the bad guys.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/germany-tanks-ukraine-war_n_63d10a29e4b0c2b49ad927e6

Scholz is a guy who takes care about his country and also helped Ukraine a lot without the antics of Johnson. There is a simple reason why Scholz said he wants to be part of alliance in this war. Scholtz also said he wants Ukraine to win this war. And Germany does not want to be the leader in this war in Europe for historical reasons. Which makes perfect sense to me. Also he said on the news that Germany interests does not match 100% US interests. Looks perfectly reasonable to me. Biden has tried to push Germany to be the leader and failed.


It's comforting to know there is someone at bcf who has a mature grasp of things relating to the Russia V Ukraine (And NATO) war.

The tech in the equipment is a reason for not sending stuff into Ukraine.
It's practically pointless to FastTrack (No pun) modern tech into a battle if the operators do not understand the technology.

Plus... The logistics of it all needs careful planning too.

It's not only political stuff.

There is also the question of who will pay for all of it.

Everyone is talking of Billions being put up to help Ukraine.

US and European Tax Payer's money should be repaid by those who benefit.

Britain lost their Empire when they defended Europe in two WWs,

We can go back to when Britain defended Europe against the Spanish and the French.
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A100man
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PostPosted: 16:20 - 26 Jan 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lest you get the impression I'm any kind of Guardianista.. I read it cos it's free and I'm cheap, and while the domestic politics is not always aligned with mine they also have wide-ranging contributions such as this form a German journo..

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/jan/26/germany-u-turn-tanks-ukraine-reluctant-olaf-scholz
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 17:01 - 26 Jan 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

A100man wrote:
Lest you get the impression I'm any kind of Guardianista.. I read it cos it's free and I'm cheap


Admit it, you're a middle class woke nut job Laughing
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M.C
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PostPosted: 17:09 - 26 Jan 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

MCN wrote:
Val wrote:
I was right. According to senior US official a transatlantic tank deal have been struck between Biden and Schloz.

Means all now should praise Olaf Scholz and give him the credit for pushing Biden to deliver M1 Abrams.

You will not read that in Daily Heil or any other brirish media though, its way to easy to present germans as the bad guys.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/germany-tanks-ukraine-war_n_63d10a29e4b0c2b49ad927e6

Scholz is a guy who takes care about his country and also helped Ukraine a lot without the antics of Johnson. There is a simple reason why Scholz said he wants to be part of alliance in this war. Scholtz also said he wants Ukraine to win this war. And Germany does not want to be the leader in this war in Europe for historical reasons. Which makes perfect sense to me. Also he said on the news that Germany interests does not match 100% US interests. Looks perfectly reasonable to me. Biden has tried to push Germany to be the leader and failed.


It's comforting to know there is someone at bcf who has a mature grasp of things relating to the Russia V Ukraine (And NATO) war.

I hope that was irony.

MCN wrote:

It's practically pointless to FastTrack (No pun) modern tech into a battle if the operators do not understand the technology.

I think that's the point of sending leopard tanks, that they can fast track the training and send enough to be more than a token gesture, which the British and possibly American tanks will be.

MCN wrote:
There is also the question of who will pay for all of it.

Everyone is talking of Billions being put up to help Ukraine.

The interesting thing I find about this argument is I don't recall conlficts like Iraq or Afghanistan being talked about in terms of money, with the conflicts reportedly costing 30 billion.

MCN wrote:
Britain lost their Empire when they defended Europe in two WWs,

We did, for all the good it did our reputation and standing Thinking
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M.C
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PostPosted: 17:15 - 26 Jan 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

^just to add to the money argument, we're spending the same housing asylum seekers in hotels as what was sent to Ukraine in military aid in 2022.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 18:14 - 26 Jan 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

Given the choice I'd rather spend the money on Ukraine just 'cos it's not on the doorstep.
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MCN
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PostPosted: 23:53 - 26 Jan 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

M.C wrote:
^just to add to the money argument, we're spending the same housing asylum seekers in hotels as what was sent to Ukraine in military aid in 2022.



Well I have a spare room if it's any use to one of those single 26-43 year old single females who have been displaced. Fit or Semi-Fit, no matter.

Shifty
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A100man
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PostPosted: 09:52 - 27 Jan 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

chickenstrip wrote:
A100man wrote:
Lest you get the impression I'm any kind of Guardianista.. I read it cos it's free and I'm cheap


Admit it, you're a middle class woke nut job Laughing


Middle-class - yes, but non-practicing.

Woke - hardly.

Nut job - in my dreams.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 11:38 - 27 Jan 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

MCN wrote:
M.C wrote:
^just to add to the money argument, we're spending the same housing asylum seekers in hotels as what was sent to Ukraine in military aid in 2022.



Well I have a spare room if it's any use to one of those single 26-43 year old single females who have been displaced. Fit or Semi-Fit, no matter.

Shifty

"Hi Home Office, I'd like Jeanne 43 please"

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FlZHgMsXkAUE-hj.jpg
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 12:43 - 27 Jan 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

So is it Chicken Kiev or Chicken Kyiv for tea nowadays?
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MCN
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PostPosted: 18:49 - 27 Jan 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

M.C wrote:
MCN wrote:


Well I have a spare room if it's any use to one of those single 26-43 year old single females who have been displaced. Fit or Semi-Fit, no matter.

Shifty

"Hi Home Office, I'd like Jeanne 43 please"

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FlZHgMsXkAUE-hj.jpg


I've sent my address to her. Cool
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MCN
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PostPosted: 18:50 - 27 Jan 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

Easy-X wrote:
So is it Chicken Kiev or Chicken Kyiv for tea nowadays?


Tastes like chicken, Smells like ......
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Islander
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PostPosted: 19:49 - 27 Jan 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

Easy-X wrote:
So is it Chicken Kiev or Chicken Kyiv for tea nowadays?
It's Kyiv in Ukrainian. Russians call it Kiev. t's also the anglicisation of Kyiv.

So Kyiv.
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DaddyStu
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PostPosted: 23:47 - 27 Jan 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:
I'm rooting for an end to this war that doesn't involve something a damn sight worse for the west including your wonderful EU.


With you on that. No-one is talking peace. Tis a very weird situation. Lets just keep escalating against the guy with 6000 nukes. What could possibly go wrong?

On Scholz. Reading back through his recent statements shows he didn't want to send the tanks. 'Someone' has a degree of control over him... or can kill the German economy if he doesn't do as they wish.

If nobody starts talking peace then we're in a binary situation. This'll either end with a complete Russian victory in Ukraine or nuclear annihilation. Which of those would we be most comfortable with?
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MCN
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PostPosted: 00:46 - 28 Jan 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

Peace?

Peace on who's terms?

Russia will not surrender.

Ukraine will fight them until Ukraine has no weapons to fight with.
Then, if Russia eventually occupy the areas they're after, the Ukrainians will continue a guerilla strategy.
Which will force Russia to flatten Kiev.

Unless NATO manages to get some serious materiel into the region and push the commies back.

Hitler and the nazis did the same thing.
1939 to 1945. 6 years of annihilation from both sides.
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DaddyStu
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PostPosted: 01:28 - 28 Jan 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

MCN wrote:
Peace?

Peace on who's terms?

Russia will not surrender.

Ukraine will fight them until Ukraine has no weapons to fight with.
Then, if Russia eventually occupy the areas they're after, the Ukrainians will continue a guerilla strategy.
Which will force Russia to flatten Kiev.

Unless NATO manages to get some serious materiel into the region and push the commies back.

Hitler and the nazis did the same thing.
1939 to 1945. 6 years of annihilation from both sides.


Any negotiated peace would be on both sides terms.

Fear you maybe right with the course of events. The biggest concern is the extent to which NATO become involved. For me, they're already too far in and risking something significantly worse!

Additionally - would rather these billions we're sending be spent on our country. Investment in jobs, infrastructure and help with peoples utility bills for instance. These are things which need to be prioritised.
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MCN
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PostPosted: 00:53 - 29 Jan 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

DaddyStu wrote:
MCN wrote:
Peace?

Peace on who's terms?

Russia will not surrender.

Ukraine will fight them until Ukraine has no weapons to fight with.
Then, if Russia eventually occupy the areas they're after, the Ukrainians will continue a guerilla strategy.
Which will force Russia to flatten Kiev.

Unless NATO manages to get some serious materiel into the region and push the commies back.

Hitler and the nazis did the same thing.
1939 to 1945. 6 years of annihilation from both sides.


Any negotiated peace would be on both sides terms.

Fear you maybe right with the course of events. The biggest concern is the extent to which NATO become involved. For me, they're already too far in and risking something significantly worse!

Additionally - would rather these billions we're sending be spent on our country. Investment in jobs, infrastructure and help with peoples utility bills for instance. These are things which need to be prioritised.


Well Putin and his crew and vermin of his ilk will walk in a take whatever they fancy if the rest of the world rolls over.

We cannot let what Hitler and his gang of murderers tried to get away with from 1933-1945.
Spending on the war against Putin is justified.
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recman
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PostPosted: 20:09 - 29 Jan 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

Easy-X wrote:
So is it Chicken Kiev or Chicken Kyiv for tea nowadays?


My kids always referred to them as chicken Kevin's.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 20:26 - 29 Jan 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

DaddyStu wrote:
The biggest concern is the extent to which NATO become involved. For me, they're already too far in and risking something significantly worse!

I think that's why they're funding Ukraine, a Russian controlled Ukraine would be more of a risk, than letting Ukraine hold them off and Russia likely holding the S.E of the country.

Nations have been equipping allies since forever, in WW2 'The Allies' supplied the Soviet Union. Long term who knows what will happen, the conflict has been going on since 2014, so likely a stalemate for the foreseeable future.
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MCN
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PostPosted: 22:04 - 29 Jan 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

M.C wrote:
DaddyStu wrote:
The biggest concern is the extent to which NATO become involved. For me, they're already too far in and risking something significantly worse!

I think that's why they're funding Ukraine, a Russian controlled Ukraine would be more of a risk, than letting Ukraine hold them off and Russia likely holding the S.E of the country.

Nations have been equipping allies since forever, in WW2 'The Allies' supplied the Soviet Union. Long term who knows what will happen, the conflict has been going on since 2014, so likely a stalemate for the foreseeable future.


Regime change for Russia is a remote possibility.
Putin is behaving as a petulant child does but he's been the Puppeteer of the Kremlin since he moved to Moscow from his Hometown and first job in politics for the 'mayor' of St Peterberg. Ex KGB his people strategy is immense. Maintaining position in that Nest of Vipers needed stamina and intelligence.

What he's done in Ukraine is psychotic behaviour.

He must be a target of assassins from several directions too.

Being a smarty pants won't make him popular.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 22:10 - 29 Jan 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've not followed all the ins and outs but I've heard some say with Putin there's much worse people that would replace him.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 22:15 - 29 Jan 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

All his intelligence sources in the country said Kyiv would just roll over and the people would welcome Russian forces with open arms. That's one load of bribe money pissed away.

All his armed forces said everything's great with the troops and equipment, they were up for tackling anything.

That being said Putin must have known that corruption and misrepresentation are still rife in Russia so he should have taken all that info with a pinch of salt Thinking
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M.C
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PostPosted: 22:29 - 29 Jan 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought it was more people were too scared to tell him the truth... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucEs0nBuowE
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to v or not to v
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PostPosted: 21:51 - 31 Jan 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hate-Filled Ukrainian Refugees Complain About Britain’s Greatest Strength.

Ukrainian refugees are refusing sponsored accommodation places in diverse British cities because they feel unsafe living in neighborhoods where the residents are primarily Islamic, it has emerged.
https://rmx.news/article/ukrainian-women-are-refusing-to-live-in-islamic-neighborhoods-in-the-uk-citing-safety-concerns/
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Val
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PostPosted: 17:45 - 11 Feb 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

A100man wrote:
Lest you get the impression I'm any kind of Guardianista.. I read it cos it's free and I'm cheap, and while the domestic politics is not always aligned with mine they also have wide-ranging contributions such as this form a German journo..

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/jan/26/germany-u-turn-tanks-ukraine-reluctant-olaf-scholz


Quote:
A Russia that must lose this war – a simple demand which Scholz, 11 months into this war, has yet to make in public.


Jan-Philipp Hein is a journalist prick based in Berlin who posted that shit 8 days after Schloz have said clearly the Russia must lost the war.

Which proves that even Guardian can post utter crap and lies.

Whilst the facts are complteley different:

Quote:
Russia must be defeated to end the war in Ukraine, German Chancellor Olaf Scholz said at the World Economic Forum in Davos


https://ukranews.com/en/news/909468-in-order-for-war-in-ukraine-to-end-russia-must-lose-german-chancellor-scholz

Not from moronic Bristih media, but from actual Ukraine news.
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