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Taking A1 Test on 100cc / Updating V5 to 125cc

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HondaCityExpr...
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Joined: 29 Aug 2021
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PostPosted: 07:08 - 01 Sep 2022    Post subject: Taking A1 Test on 100cc / Updating V5 to 125cc Reply with quote
Hi everyone,

So I currently ride a 100cc bike, I love it and really don't want to sell it or get another bike, however I do want to take my A1 test on it.

If taking the test on your own bike, what paperwork and checks do testers do to make sure you're on a bike of the correct engine size? If the bike performs and I'm able to do everything required and I just tell them it's a model that looks identical but is 125cc, will I get away with it?

If not...

Would it be possible to tell the DVLA I've changed the engine to a 125cc easily enough? I'm sure I could produce any receipts etc that they'd need. Would it be possible to do this without an engine number?
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Ste
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Joined: 01 Sep 2002
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PostPosted: 07:21 - 01 Sep 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
It being a CB100 will most likely give away the fact that it's not a 125.

You don't need to take the V5 with you when doing your tests but I'd expect the examiner to be familiar with such bikes and know that you're trying to take them for an idiot.
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HondaCityExpr...
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Joined: 29 Aug 2021
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PostPosted: 08:07 - 01 Sep 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Sure, but a quick change of a fuel tank and side panels and who is going to know?

My main question though is, do they actually check paperwork of the vehicle?
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A100man
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Joined: 19 Aug 2013
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PostPosted: 08:26 - 01 Sep 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Seems like a lot of bother - can't you borrow one or buy/sell quickly .
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HondaCityExpr...
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PostPosted: 08:34 - 01 Sep 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
I'm in no rush, I just want to keep my bike and don't have room for a third bike, so looking at options.

Does anyone know the answer to any of my questions?
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Ste
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Joined: 01 Sep 2002
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PostPosted: 08:45 - 01 Sep 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
HondaCityExpress wrote:
Sure, but a quick change of a fuel tank and side panels and who is going to know?

Anyone who knows about bikes is going to know. Examiners will have seen all the dumb tricks before as it is their job. DVSA Derek may well have had a CB100 or CB125 themselves back when they were young.

HondaCityExpress wrote:
My main question though is, do they actually check paperwork of the vehicle?

Ste wrote:
You don't need to take the V5 with you when doing your tests

https://www.gov.uk/motorcycle-test/what-to-take

You might get away with using a CB100 but I wouldn't want to bet on it.

Your top speed could give you away as well.

If you want to tell the DVLA that the engine capacity has been changed then you'd need to use fake documents as proof and I can't see how that could possibly go wrong for you. Laughing

https://www.gov.uk/change-vehicle-details-registration-certificate/what-evidence-to-give
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HondaCityExpr...
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PostPosted: 09:41 - 01 Sep 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
I honestly don't think DVSA Derek will be able to spot the difference between a fully custom CB100, CB125 and CG125 at face value, sure if I give him reason to check I'm sure he'll be able to work it out under more inspection. But if they don't actually routinely check documents and the bike looks and performs as required, why would they care?

Also, I wouldn't need to fake anything, things can always be purchased and returned/cancelled.

Again, none of this is answering my questions, do they actually routinely check documents? If anyone with constructive experience can share I'd truly appreciate it.
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Ste
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PostPosted: 09:47 - 01 Sep 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
HondaCityExpress wrote:
Again, none of this is answering my questions, do they actually routinely check documents? If anyone with constructive experience can share I'd truly appreciate it.

Which of your questions have I not answered? Confused
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A100man
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PostPosted: 10:12 - 01 Sep 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
When I took my test in 1982 they didn't check if my Yam RS200 wasn't actually an RD400.. but things might have moved on since then.
I doubt anyone here has actually taken an A1 test
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Evil Hans
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PostPosted: 10:15 - 01 Sep 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
HondaCityExpress wrote:

Again, none of this is answering my questions, do they actually routinely check documents? If anyone with constructive experience can share I'd truly appreciate it.


Again, https://www.gov.uk/motorcycle-test/what-to-take

and

https://www.gov.uk/motorcycle-test/motorcycles-mopeds-you-can-use


It says it must be MOT'd - and if they have a system for checking vehicles that may well throw up that it's only 100cc
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Last edited by Evil Hans on 10:21 - 01 Sep 2022; edited 3 times in total
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Nobby the Bastard
Harley Gaydar



Joined: 16 Aug 2013
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PostPosted: 10:17 - 01 Sep 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
I'd be surprised if anyone in the country had actually bothered to do a test on an A1 bike because its a fucking waste of time and energy.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 11:33 - 01 Sep 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
If you're a kid and you want to get your A licence as quick as possible you'd do A1 then A2 then A, seems a bit mad otherwise.

Trying to do the test on a non-compliant bike seems a lot of hassle. The standard pipeline is join school, learn, pass test on school bike. Do that! But seriously, consider doing a full A licence if you can. Who knows what the future might bring...

As a youngster I did my driving test knowing full well I couldn't afford a car, spending the next couple of years cycling to work. Changed jobs and the final question at the interview was "do you have a clean licence?" which I could honestly answer "yes" (no car = slim chance of accumulating points) and company car keys were thrown at me Smile
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HondaCityExpr...
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Joined: 29 Aug 2021
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PostPosted: 12:08 - 01 Sep 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ste wrote:
HondaCityExpress wrote:
Again, none of this is answering my questions, do they actually routinely check documents? If anyone with constructive experience can share I'd truly appreciate it.

Which of your questions have I not answered? Confused


If they check bike documents for an A1 test and if you can update V5 without an engine number. All you've offered is what ifs and negative opinions.
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HondaCityExpr...
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PostPosted: 12:10 - 01 Sep 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nobby the Bastard wrote:
I'd be surprised if anyone in the country had actually bothered to do a test on an A1 bike because its a fucking waste of time and energy.


Thank you for your opinion, however I don't agree and I'm happy doing it this way. I don't need convincing otherwise.
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HondaCityExpr...
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PostPosted: 12:20 - 01 Sep 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Easy-X wrote:
If you're a kid and you want to get your A licence as quick as possible you'd do A1 then A2 then A, seems a bit mad otherwise.

Trying to do the test on a non-compliant bike seems a lot of hassle. The standard pipeline is join school, learn, pass test on school bike. Do that! But seriously, consider doing a full A licence if you can. Who knows what the future might bring...

As a youngster I did my driving test knowing full well I couldn't afford a car, spending the next couple of years cycling to work. Changed jobs and the final question at the interview was "do you have a clean licence?" which I could honestly answer "yes" (no car = slim chance of accumulating points) and company car keys were thrown at me Smile


It's only effort if it doesn't work out, if it works out its actually much less effort, cost and time.

I appreciate there's a standard way of doing things, however the standard ways of doing things are usually geared towards someone else benefitting before yourself, so I tend to avoid the normal way of doing things in order to preserve my own time, effort and funds.

I'm sure I might end up taking an A or A2 test in the future, but when that happens, I will be much more confident and competant on the roads and therefore much more likely to pass first time with less costly tuition and might have a bigger bike of my own waiting that I can do the training and test on. Right now in London where 75% of the roads I go on are 20mph, there will be nothing more frustrating than being on those roads with a much more capable bike beneath me.

At least with the 40 year old 100cc beneath me, 20mph feels a bit more exciting.
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Ste
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Joined: 01 Sep 2002
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PostPosted: 12:29 - 01 Sep 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
HondaCityExpress wrote:
If they check bike documents for an A1 test and if you can update V5 without an engine number. All you've offered is what ifs and negative opinions.

https://www.gov.uk/motorcycle-test/what-to-take

Those are the documents you need to take with you to your test. So no, the bike documents won't be checked.

You don't need to have an engine number so you can update the v5 without an engine number.
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Ste
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PostPosted: 12:45 - 01 Sep 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
HondaCityExpress wrote:
It's only effort if it doesn't work out, if it works out its actually much less effort, cost and time.

I appreciate there's a standard way of doing things, however the standard ways of doing things are usually geared towards someone else benefitting before yourself, so I tend to avoid the normal way of doing things in order to preserve my own time, effort and funds.

If doing the practical tests twice works out cheaper then fair enough

HondaCityExpress wrote:
I'm sure I might end up taking an A or A2 test in the future, but when that happens, I will be much more confident and competant on the roads and therefore much more likely to pass first time with less costly tuition and might have a bigger bike of my own waiting that I can do the training and test on. Right now in London where 75% of the roads I go on are 20mph, there will be nothing more frustrating than being on those roads with a much more capable bike beneath me.

Insurance to use your own bike for training and tests will be the problematic part. Most people don't pass first time so it could quite easily get expensive if you don't pass A1 first time and don't pass DAS first time. But who knows, we're talking about a hypothetical event at some point in the future so we shouldn't get into that discussion now. Laughing

You'll be more confident and competent on a bigger bike rather than a tiddler. I think I'd be right in saying that we've done that topic to death and the benefits (that's plural because it's not all about the power) of a bigger bike aren't of interest because you love your CB100?

Any ideas or plans for what engine you might fit?
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Nobby the Bastard
Harley Gaydar



Joined: 16 Aug 2013
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PostPosted: 13:09 - 01 Sep 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Cb100s are basically a cheap shite learner version of a superdream.

Superdreams are renowned for being possibly the blandest, most boring bike ever made.
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha:"Remember this simple rule - scooters are for men who like to feel the breeze on their huge, flapping cunt lips."
Triumph Sprint ST 1050

Last edited by Nobby the Bastard on 13:12 - 01 Sep 2022; edited 1 time in total
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HondaCityExpr...
Borekit Bruiser



Joined: 29 Aug 2021
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PostPosted: 13:11 - 01 Sep 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nobby the Bastard wrote:
Cb100s are basically a cheap shite learner version if a superdream.

Superdreams are renowned for being possibly the blandest, most boring bike ever made.


Thanks again for your heartwarming, irrelevant response, we appreciate you. I didn't realise motorcycles had bonnets for bees to get stuck in, I guess I have much to learn.
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 13:25 - 01 Sep 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Just saying that if your cb100n is the best thing to sliced bread in your eyes maybe you should really be raising your expectations. Having ridden one back in the late eighties they were mediocre at best then and the intervening 30 years wouldn't have helped any surviving examples at all.

They were worse than a cg125 ffs.
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha:"Remember this simple rule - scooters are for men who like to feel the breeze on their huge, flapping cunt lips."
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HondaCityExpr...
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Joined: 29 Aug 2021
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PostPosted: 13:27 - 01 Sep 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ste wrote:
HondaCityExpress wrote:
If they check bike documents for an A1 test and if you can update V5 without an engine number. All you've offered is what ifs and negative opinions.

https://www.gov.uk/motorcycle-test/what-to-take

Those are the documents you need to take with you to your test. So no, the bike documents won't be checked.

You don't need to have an engine number so you can update the v5 without an engine number.


Thanks, see I have read that 'what you take with you' article but I just can't believe that there's no check on the bike, so many people must take their test on their own bike, surely lots of them are custom with no obvious way of knowing if it's a 100cc or a 200cc or anything in between and if they don't ask for proof, how are they going to say my bike isn't acceptable, it's my word against theirs. Seems crazy to me that it's not more regimented and black and white. But hey, I'm very tempted to book my mod 1 just to test the theory. For £15 it's worth finding out and I might even pass. My main worry is getting it to 31mph for the obstacle avoidance section

Good to know about the V5 won't need an engine number... If I actually do change the engine it'll either be a Zongchen 157FMI or a CG125 as they're the most easily sourced but will need custom mounting brackets. Seems like the only bolt for bolt option is a CB125s which currently seem very hard to come by and likely expensive if I find one. But I'll only see it as borrowing it, so upfront cost isn't a huge issue if I know it will sell for similar when I'm done.

But I think route 1 will be path of least resistance which will be taking the test with the bike as is, just with some customization to make it look like a CB125s. Again, tank and panels can be bought and sold without much loss.
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Nobby the Bastard
Harley Gaydar



Joined: 16 Aug 2013
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PostPosted: 13:33 - 01 Sep 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
In b4 someone suggests to dvla derek that all testers check the engine size stamped on the side of the barrel of any 125s ridden for tests.

After all, there will be only one person attempting an a1 test.anyway....
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha:"Remember this simple rule - scooters are for men who like to feel the breeze on their huge, flapping cunt lips."
Triumph Sprint ST 1050

Last edited by Nobby the Bastard on 13:46 - 01 Sep 2022; edited 1 time in total
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HondaCityExpr...
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Joined: 29 Aug 2021
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PostPosted: 13:34 - 01 Sep 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nobby the Bastard wrote:
Just saying that if your cb100n is the best thing to sliced bread in your eyes maybe you should really be raising your expectations. Having ridden one back in the late eighties they were mediocre at best then and the intervening 30 years wouldn't have helped any surviving examples at all.

They were worse than a cg125 ffs.


It does everything I need and I really love the way it looks, I've test ridden modern bikes and yes they go and stop faster, smoother and more efficiently, but they feel joyless to me personally. I'm sure there are much nicer vintage bikes out there, but in London I'm scraping it out of my back gate and leaving it in vulnerable situations where thieves could have it in a second. I wouldn't want to ruin a better bike and I wouldn't want to come back to a much nicer bike that's no longer where I left it.

This one I love, it feels exciting when I ride it, can't go fast enough to kill myself and so far nobody wants to nick it! All great positives to me.
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Ste
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Joined: 01 Sep 2002
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PostPosted: 13:48 - 01 Sep 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
HondaCityExpress wrote:
Thanks, see I have read that 'what you take with you' article but I just can't believe that there's no check on the bike, so many people must take their test on their own bike surely lots of them are custom with no obvious way of knowing if it's a 100cc or a 200cc or anything in between and if they don't ask for proof, how are they going to say my bike isn't acceptable, it's my word against theirs.

No, not many people use their own bikes for the test because of how much of a PITA it is. Turning up on a training school bike with an instructor in tow gives a far better impression than someone turning up on their own on a customised something-or-other.

If the examiner knows what they're looking at then it's incredibly simple for them to say that your bike isn't acceptable.

Pretty sure that you'll have to sign something about the bike being road legal, insured and whatever else

Quote:
Seems crazy to me that it's not more regimented and black and white. But hey, I'm very tempted to book my mod 1 just to test the theory. For £15 it's worth finding out and I might even pass. My main worry is getting it to 31mph for the obstacle avoidance section

Being able to give the part 1 test a go just to see what it's like and how you get on is an advantage of the A1 license, mod 1 is a glorified CBT.

Hazard avoidance being hassle is one of the disadvantages of a small bikes and that's your choice to make. Wink

Quote:
Seems like the only bolt for bolt option is a CB125s which currently seem very hard to come by and likely expensive if I find one. But I'll only see it as borrowing it, so upfront cost isn't a huge issue if I know it will sell for similar when I'm done.

Then your bike will be engineless. Confused

Quote:
But I think route 1 will be path of least resistance which will be taking the test with the bike as is, just with some customization to make it look like a CB125s. Again, tank and panels can be bought and sold without much loss.

It's going to be 100% down to whether the examiner knows what they're looking at.
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HondaCityExpr...
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Joined: 29 Aug 2021
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PostPosted: 14:08 - 01 Sep 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Yeah I think you're right, it will 100% be a case of depends on the day who you get and what mood they're in, but if it looks like a 120-125cc, I'm friendly and competent, I can't see why anyone would question it. But even if they are in a bad mood, they can't categorically prove they're right, so will be an interesting one for sure!

Biggest threat is that the examiner likes the look of it and wants to know more and has a good look for his own intrigue.

I did my CBT on a 1985 Honda City Express and the two instructors loved it and wouldn't stop talking about it. I'm sure if it was 20% too little they would have put me through just because it brightened up their day and had something different to look at.

The Cb100n already has an engine, so I'd pop that back in after, or keep the 125cc if I like it and pawn the original engine if I go that route.
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