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Bhud
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PostPosted: 19:01 - 19 Sep 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

I went up to Windsor today and it was jam-packed. Lots of people wandering around, lots of road closures, etc. Shame about some of the volunteer force out on patrol though. Most of them were cool and respectful, others clearly had issues. The actual funeral was taking place in Windsor Racecourse, which is what you can see on the TV. However, there were throngs of people in Windsor high street and Eton. Not really an upbeat or downbeat atmosphere - seemed kind of off. Lots of young families spending a day out, although some of them were wearing black. This was one occasion where you could leave your bike anywhere and just walk, as there were police lining the streets everywhere. One guy sitting on a bench looked morose. There was a dude who'd brought along an upright piano and was playing what I think was his own compo on the bridge, and this was causing a blockage as people who looked like Youtubers were standing there filming. Very confusing roads situation.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 21:04 - 19 Sep 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

chickenstrip wrote:
But where's the subjugation and exploitation? I dunno, we certainly aren't very good at this stuff anymore, sadly Sad

'Jamaicans would have been better off British - poll': https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-13952592

It's bizarre when things have gotten worse but then you want to fully cut the cord. I don't really care either way I just don't follow the logic.
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Ste
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PostPosted: 21:21 - 19 Sep 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ribenapigeon wrote:
Any idea how much it's all costing? Including the cost to the economy of everyone going on strike for a day to protest against having a democracy?

To complicate the question of how much it's all costing, you could take into account the fact that she reigned for 70 years.

As Charles is 70 already, when he snuffs it his funeral costs will be worse value for money than Lizzie's.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 22:46 - 19 Sep 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

M.C wrote:
chickenstrip wrote:
But where's the subjugation and exploitation? I dunno, we certainly aren't very good at this stuff anymore, sadly Sad

'Jamaicans would have been better off British - poll': https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-13952592

It's bizarre when things have gotten worse but then you want to fully cut the cord. I don't really care either way I just don't follow the logic.


Not sure I'm getting your point here? Explain? Did you not suggest that the former British Empire and the Commonwealth were the same thing?
Jeepers creepers, internet conversations can be a struggle sometimes Laughing
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 22:49 - 19 Sep 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ribenapigeon wrote:
Any idea how much it's all costing?

Police overtime maybe. What else?
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 22:52 - 19 Sep 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ribenapigeon wrote:
Any idea how much it's all costing?


If you're complaining about it, then surely you already know and it's a stupendous amount? You tell us.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 22:54 - 19 Sep 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

chickenstrip wrote:
M.C wrote:
'Jamaicans would have been better off British - poll': https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-13952592

It's bizarre when things have gotten worse but then you want to fully cut the cord. I don't really care either way I just don't follow the logic.


Not sure I'm getting your point here? Explain?

According to that survey/article they believe they would have been better off 'if it had remained a British colony'. The article then talks about leaving the commonwealth.

chickenstrip wrote:
Did you not suggest that the former British Empire and the Commonwealth were the same thing?

Similar but different, but that's what Ribenapigeon was referring to. Unless he meant: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Overseas_Territories
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 23:02 - 19 Sep 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry M.C, think I must be tired, not really following this too well.
Let me make myself clear: I do not think that the Commonwealth is an "Empire", although many countries elected to be a part of it when the empire was 'dissolved'. That's where the similarities come from. Many other countries have since joined, some that were never part of the old empire, and some have left. It is not a static thing, and countries are freely able to choose if they want to remain or not.

If countries, once free of the "British yoke" elected to be in the Commonwealth, you have to think that British rule can't have been too bad, unlike many another empire the world has seen.

If you think I suggested we should cut the cords completely ourselves, then perhaps I did not make myself clear. Plus, sometimes my sarcastic streak gets the better of me, which might not help Laughing
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M.C
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PostPosted: 23:17 - 19 Sep 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

chickenstrip wrote:
Sorry M.C, think I must be tired, not really following this too well.
Let me make myself clear: I do not think that the Commonwealth is an "Empire", although many countries elected to be a part of it when the empire was 'dissolved'. That's where the similarities come from. Many other countries have since joined, some that were never part of the old empire, and some have left. It is not a static thing, and countries are freely able to choose if they want to remain or not.

So similar but different? Smile I think you're interpreting what I said too seriously, it was mainly just pointing what what RP probably meant.

M.C wrote:
If countries, once free of the "British yoke" elected to be in the Commonwealth, you have to think that British rule can't have been too bad, unlike many another empire the world has seen.

Precisely, and until recently you didn't really hear the oppression narrative from them, it seems to be a feedback loop that comes from 'us', as in shitlibs and diversities in Britain and we know why they do it.

In terms of independence and self-governance, all those things I understand, and I think are only natural.

chickenstrip wrote:
If you think I suggested we should cut the cords completely ourselves, then perhaps I did not make myself clear.

I didn't, I was referring to the BBC article on Jamaica.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 23:19 - 19 Sep 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Say whatever you want about Britain but we do pagentry better than anyone else.

Today was an epic spectacle.
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Bhud
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PostPosted: 23:21 - 19 Sep 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

HM QE2 stood for stability. The years of the late 20th century were interesting times, and they've only got more interesting in the 21st century. The UK has gone down the rabbit hole of fortress/little island politics, and this hasn't worked. Nothing was achieved - not the Rwanda thing nor any special trade deals with the rest of the Anglo world. Rising powers in the world have significant leverage in Britain now (probably because they think they can't afford not to play the game). Riding the tiger... The problems of the 21st century will be solved by technology not by politics, and as for the diplomatic leverage of this country and its diminishing importance, situations and events will only get more and more extreme. Personally, I don't think we've even seen a hint of how this will pan out, but we will. I have a feeling that the golden years are behind us, and as water always finds its level, tumultuous upsets may occur. The Caribbean nations will probably divest from all association with the Commonwealth and with the Crown. Least of anyone's worries. To be frank, they're best left alone to get on with it. Interesting times.

Last edited by Bhud on 23:22 - 19 Sep 2022; edited 2 times in total
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M.C
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PostPosted: 23:21 - 19 Sep 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:
Say whatever you want about Britain but we do pagentry better than anyone else.

Today was an epic spectacle.

I agree, I didn't watch it live cos Sleeping but some of the shots they showed on the news were mighty impressive.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 00:18 - 20 Sep 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

M.C wrote:
I think you're interpreting what I said too seriously


Quite possibly, I do sometimes find it difficult to assess, when nuance can easily be lost in an internet conversation.

Quote:
chickenstrip wrote:
If you think I suggested we should cut the cords completely ourselves, then perhaps I did not make myself clear.

I didn't, I was referring to the BBC article on Jamaica.


Sorry, I missed how that fitted in with what I had said.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 00:25 - 20 Sep 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

M.C wrote:
Polarbear wrote:
Say whatever you want about Britain but we do pagentry better than anyone else.

Today was an epic spectacle.

I agree, I didn't watch it live cos Sleeping but some of the shots they showed on the news were mighty impressive.


+2
I haven't the patience to watch the whole thing either. I did watch the transference of the Queen's coffin to Westminster Abbey, funnily enough on an American reaction channel; thought it might be interesting to get an outsider's take - but in the end he didn't have a great deal to say Rolling Eyes
Impressive though. I wonder how many people around the world did watch it. Do you think as many would watch the funeral services for a republican head of state, say a Corbyn-like figure? Laughing

What I do think the public enthusiasm and shows of respect have shown is that if we had a referendum on "monarchy or repubiic?" here, the republicans would be crushed - that's the feeling I get anyway. It is up to King Charles now to keep that sentiment alive. We shall see.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 00:44 - 20 Sep 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

People turned out for Winston Churchill and Ghandi's funeral looked quite something from the photos.

BTW I think the average reign for British monarchs is <20 years. Liz 2 and Vicky were anomalies as was Liz 1. In contrast Dick 3 lasted a couple of years and his nephew, poor old Eddie 5 only technically king for a few months Shocked
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 00:44 - 20 Sep 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bhud wrote:
The UK has gone down the rabbit hole of fortress/little island politics, and this hasn't worked.


My interpretation is that we're still trying to shake free of the EU properly as far as political direction is concerned. It wouldn't have been realistic to think this could be done quickly, even harder when there is still considerable resistance even from within.

Quote:
Nothing was achieved - not the Rwanda thing


it has been blocked, mostly by us being in the ECHR, which we should withdraw from imo. But other solutions could be found if the blockage was removed. I heard somewhere that Germany has a quite desperate labour shortage Smile

Quote:
nor any special trade deals with the rest of the Anglo world.


But nearly 100 deals with other nations. The "Anglo" world is in a state of flux, partly sparked by Brexit (Europe)*, partly by Trump's presidency - although these things have merely accelerated what was already happening. Again, my opinion, and you are, of course, entitled to yours Smile

Quote:
Rising powers in the world have significant leverage in Britain now (probably because they think they can't afford not to play the game).


Globalist powers are gaining leverage in all countries, apart maybe from China, who I think have an uneasy alliance with the globalists of a more western bent. This I think will be the epic battle in the end. I can't help but think it is best if we keep off to one side of that whole mess, though it won't be easy, even from outside of the EU. I think the financial powerhouse of London is a jealously coveted prize for the globalists, and there will be battles to see who it really belongs to.

I have a feeling that Truss will be made to kow-tow to the globalist line in significant areas, as would a Labour or Lib Dem leader if we had one, as are national leaders all around the world. My hope is that they will all get fed up with it as unrealistic globalist policies increase unrest in home nations, and decide not to tow the line any more.

It's all just one take on things though. The situation is really too complex for anyone to call, even those playing for high stakes. Too many unpredictable variables.

*Edit: hang on, pretty sure we've concluded deals with Canada, New Zealand and Australia?
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Last edited by chickenstrip on 01:33 - 20 Sep 2022; edited 1 time in total
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 00:56 - 20 Sep 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Easy-X wrote:


BTW I think the average reign for British monarchs is <20 years. Liz 2 and Vicky were anomalies as was Liz 1. In contrast Dick 3 lasted a couple of years and his nephew, poor old Eddie 5 only technically king for a few months Shocked


It's a pity you feel the need to be so casual with the names of these former monarchs. It's only small, but it adds to the disrespect, and thus the erosion of British culture, which I thought you wanted to defend generally. Maybe my reaction comes from having served in the Armed Forces, and the respect for the Monarchy engendered there, but it's almost like I'm reading a post by Ribenapoison.

It is of course quite possible that I will see two more monarchs on the throne in my time following the passing of Queen Elizabeth. King Charles ain't no spring chicken after all. At least he had a somewhat freer life before assuming the crown and its responsibilities.

Back in the days of such kings as Richard III and Edward V, there was much more intriguing, and power struggles between those who claimed rights to the throne, brought to the fore by kings who treated their subjects less well than in modern times.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 01:06 - 20 Sep 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

M.C wrote:

In terms of independence and self-governance, all those things I understand, and I think are only natural.


Try telling that to a Remoaner Laughing
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M.C
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PostPosted: 01:22 - 20 Sep 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

chickenstrip wrote:
Sorry, I missed how that fitted in with what I had said.

'subjugation and exploitation'. Whether said in jest or not I used it as an excuse to give their perspective, which rarely seems to happen as I assume it doesn't fit with the narrative most of the time.

chickenstrip wrote:
Impressive though. I wonder how many people around the world did watch it. Do you think as many would watch the funeral services for a republican head of state, say a Corbyn-like figure? Laughing

Not quite but there's been a few celebrated politicians, Churchie and Thatcher spring to mind, with the latter obviously being a tad controversial:
https://i2-prod.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article1837251.ece/ALTERNATES/s615/Margaret-Thatcher-funeral.png

Specifically a republic someone like JFK:
https://res.cloudinary.com/graham-media-group/image/upload/f_auto/q_auto/c_scale,w_1280/v1/media/gmg/VQK4BY2LV5ECFNFMYUF6KJL4PQ.jpg?_a=ATO2BAA0

Probably doesn't help politicians are a bunch of self-serving c**ts now.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 01:29 - 20 Sep 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

M.C wrote:

'subjugation and exploitation'. Whether said in jest or not...


Oh, the sarcasm dial was up on that one Laughing

Quote:

Probably doesn't help politicians are a bunch of self-serving c**ts now.


Absolutely this. So shall we have a republic and hand them even more power? Perhaps not, eh? Laughing
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M.C
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PostPosted: 01:30 - 20 Sep 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

chickenstrip wrote:
Maybe my reaction comes from having served in the Armed Forces, and the respect for the Monarchy engendered there

Or indoctrinated Wink
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 01:36 - 20 Sep 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

M.C wrote:
chickenstrip wrote:
Maybe my reaction comes from having served in the Armed Forces, and the respect for the Monarchy engendered there

Or indoctrinated Wink


Such a shit word, is it all you know? Laughing
Of course, everyone has been indoctrinated in one way or another, even you M.C Wink
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M.C
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PostPosted: 01:40 - 20 Sep 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

chickenstrip wrote:
M.C wrote:

Or indoctrinated Wink

Such a shit word, is it all you know? Laughing
Of course, everyone has been indoctrinated in one way or another, even you M.C Wink

I couldn't be bothered carrying on the convo the other night, but I was gonna ask if you would settle on conditioned? Smile
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 01:55 - 20 Sep 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

M.C wrote:

I couldn't be bothered carrying on the convo the other night, but I was gonna ask if you would settle on conditioned? Smile


Looking back, my "conditioning" (yes, perhaps a little better, still lacking something though Laughing ) actually started probably from when I first read the story of Douglas Bader, who I have always had a high regard for, along with all those who fought for this country, and then becoming interested in military aircraft. One of my strongest memories is from when we lived directly under the flight path of the RAF fly-overs for the Queen's birthdays, so impressive, knew what I wanted do after that, and when I signed on and swore my oath, I knew pretty much what I was letting myself in for, didn't have any major doubts with any of it.

I think those who have served have an instinctive understanding of why our monarchy is to be treasured and protected. Not many these days seem to understand the importance of tradition, sadly, and that's only one part of it.
In the services, you feel connected with the nation - your job is to defend it, and why would you do that if you didn't believe in it?
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 06:47 - 20 Sep 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:
Say whatever you want about Britain but we do forelock tugging better than anyone else.

Today was an epic spectacle.


Fixed that for you
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