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Adventures in Carbon Fibre

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Nope.
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Joined: 17 Feb 2011
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PostPosted: 20:24 - 26 Sep 2022    Post subject: Adventures in Carbon Fibre Reply with quote

Yes yes, I know I haven't updated the 5PW thread in ages, and I should be working on that, but this was shiny...

So, how did all this start? Well, my XT660Z has a repeat problem where when I drop it off road, the brake pedal gets pushed into the clutch cover and inevitably cracks it. "Get a folding pedal!" I hear you cry. Yes yes, but no. That's far too sensible. What I really needed was a casing protector. Except nobody makes one!

I had some carbon sheet left in the garage that I bought ages ago to play with and never got around to. I figured whats the worst that can happen! I stuck a spare clutch cover down to some fluted sign board, buffed some beeswax into it, coated it with a PVA release agent, Smoothed over all of the openings and gaps with filleting wax, and layed up some wet carbon over the top. I knew this wasn't going to be pretty, but it would at least be functional. In the end, I was left with this (excuse it being poorly trimmed and not clean, I still need to sand the edges, tidy up the cut out, and build up some spray lacquer on it):

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52386605238_ccfb2a67d4.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52385438282_f7d26f4f05.jpg

But this made me remember how much I used to enjoy playing with composites when I was younger, and that now I'm older with more disposable cash how much fun it could be to properly invest in some decent supplies and have another go at it. So I went onto EasyComposites and bought a selection of mould making and carbon infusion supplies. I didn't want to spend £250 on a vacuum pump so I ordered a Chinese one that seems to review well. This all turned up over the past week or so, but as I work a lot I didn't get much of a chance to play until this weekend.

I decided to start small, and make a carbon heel plate for the XT660Z, something nice and easy to test out the theory. Unfortunately I forgot to take a picture of it in prep, but I stuck it to some fluted sign board, closed the edge with filleting wax, and filled the holes in as well. I then applied the first layer of tooling gelcoat:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52386367406_ccd0d9a8e8.jpg

I then applied an additional layer after 3 hours, and left it to cure overnight. The next morning, I added a coupling coat and two layers of fine chopped strand matting:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52386604848_d3b48ccba4.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52386672374_b147f03fc9.jpg

I left these for 3 hours to cure, then I added 5 layers of thicker chopped strand matting and tooling resin:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52385437317_d08cc5e278.jpg

I left this for 5 hours to cure, then once it had fully exothermed and cooled, I carefully removed the fluted signboard:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52385437387_a704f731b4.jpg

I then removed the part with great ease thanks to the easylease release agent:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52386603938_5f6ab4fe1c.jpg

and cleaned out some of the wax:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52386603653_eaaa1e78e6.jpg

and that's as far as I've got as the work week started and I got busy! Next steps are to trim the mould flanges and sand down the rough spots where the filleting wax was. I thought those would be smoother but it seems not. Lessons leaned so far:

1) Use an easier shape of fluted signboard (I used an off cut, hence the weird shape)
2) Measure the coupling coat better (I had way too much resin left over)
3) Find a better way to get a better surface from the wax

My ultimate goal is to make a set of fairings for my R1 in Carbon, but we'll see how far we get... Very Happy
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2011 XT660Z Ténéré - 2003 YZR-R1 5PW (In Build)
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 21:43 - 26 Sep 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had a bit of a play with layup moulds to make an exhaust heat shield for my VFR. I used high temperature epoxy and karbon kevlar bias weave cloth (for fanciness).

In fairness, while it looks rough as arseholes, it's a faithful replica of the battered and knackered original. Only trouble was a) air bubbles because i don't have a vacuum pump and b) The colour because I used tinted furniture paste wax as a release agent.

A functional first attempt though.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AL9nZEVcW2mJmS9q8c41kLB5qahyxnPcxDqSuqmSLaCDFTC1__debFnoWO0aGQHsMz7rNkkOJHe_lbqUTqnTNHuYfx84q_sisKQs3XIW7y4gGvynoV4Gbvap5Oyjw4h1xFczU-8W546EIyhIfEZak-a2cQX0=w1182-h886-no
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“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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Nope.
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PostPosted: 19:44 - 19 Oct 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been lazy in updating this, mainly because I'm always busy these days, but also because I wanted something cool to post, but I don't really have that yet. Anyway, here's an update!

The first lesson of this update, is this stuff is expensive. I think I'm around £800 into it now. I'd better get good at this fast! Laughing

My current purchases look like this (Sorry for the long list!):

- 1x Uni-Mould Complete Mould Making Kit - Regular (0.7sqm) - £76.95
- 1x MEKP Catalyst 250g (2x 125g) - £3.00
- 1x Fluted Signboard 61cm x 61cm (Pack of 4) - £8.90
- 5 x Plastic Resin Mixing Stick - £2.50
- 4 x Calibrated Mixing Cup 1300ml - £2.52
- 4 x Calibrated Mixing Cup 2240ml - £3.16
- 1 x Plastic Demoulding Wedge Small - £1.38
- 2 x 6mm Hose-Tail Barb Connector - £3.00
- 1 x 8mm Hose-Tail Barb Connector - £1.50
- 1 x 8mm Hose-Tail Barb Connector 1/2" BSP - £1.50
- 1 x Reducing Bush 1/2" - 1/4" BSP - £1.50
- 4 x Newplast Plasticine 500g White - £7.40
- 1 x PP180 Economy Peel Ply 1.52m (Black Tracer)- 5lm Folded Pack - £10.00
- 1 x Soft Filleting and Filling Wax - 650g Pack - £10.95
- 1 x NW1 PLUS White Super Cutting Compound - 500g - £11.30
- 1 x FM100 Infusion Mesh 1.05m - 5lm Folded Pack - £12.00
- 1 x VB160 Vacuum Bagging Film 1.52m LFT - 5lm Folded Pack - £12.40
- 1 x 6mm ID Budget PVC Vacuum Hose 30m - £14.95
- 2 x 200g 2x2 Twill Carbon Black Twaron 1000mm Wide - £42.00
- 1 x IN2 Epoxy Infusion Resin 1kg Pack SLOW - £21.25
- 1 x High Temperature Sheet Wax 2mm - £21.35
- 5 x Resin Infusion Silicone Connector - £16.25
- 2 x Resin Infusion Spiral Medium Flow 10m Coil - £7.00
- 1 x Flash/Release Tape 50mm 10m roll - £3.75
- 1 x Ball End Wax Filleting Tools Set of 3 - £31.50
- 1 x MW1 Wax Additive Solution 250g - £4.95
- 2 x 8mm ID Silicone Vacuum Hose - £10.00
- 3 x Resin Infusion Line Clamp - £15.75
- 1 x Composites Laminating Brush 1/2 Inch (12mm) - Carton of 10 - £5.35
- 3 x ST150 Vacuum Bagging Gum Sealant Tape 15m - Individual Rolls - £16.5
- 2 x 6mm ID Budget PVC Vacuum Hose 5m - £11.90
- 1 x Mirka Abrasive Paper Combination Pack - 10 Sheets - £6.95
- 1 x Catalyst Dispenser Bottle - £8.40
- 1 x MC1 Mould Cleaner - 500ml - £8.50
- 1 x High Precision Mini Scales (0.1g / 2kg) - £8.95
- 1 x CR1 Easy-Lease Chemical Release Agent - 250ml - £9.50
- 1 x BR180 Breather Layer Cloth 1.52m - 5lm Folded Pack - £9.75
- 1 x 3CFM 1/3HP Refrigerant Rotary Vane Vacuum Pump - £43.99
- 1 x 1.5 Gallon Vacuum Chamber - £44.99
- 1 x Professional Resin Infusion Catch-Pot - £79.95
- 1 x 2mm Lantor Soric SF Infusion Core - £8.45
- 1 x Regular Mixing Sticks Pack of 100 - £3.50
- 100 x Catch-Pot Liner / Large Mixing Cup - £15

Now, did I need to buy all of this stuff to do this? No. I needed some of it, but a lot of it is cheaper to buy in larger quantities, and to be honest I plan on making a fair bit of stuff so it made sense to buy it all now. I'm also buying a few different things to try and experiment with, so that adds to the cost.

So where have I gotten to so far? Well, not that far Laughing

I've tried to pull two pieces of carbon from the mould above so far, and both have failed. This is a learning process, so I totally expected this! The first one I did before I got the catch pot, and I couldn't draw the resin through enough to pull a good vacuum without the resin ending up in the pump, so that failed and ended up with a thick pocket of resin on both sides. Then I got the catch pot and tried again, but my bag had a leak in it somewhere and once again I ended up with pooling resin and the carbon not being pulled fully into the mould:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52439262372_b5a8efaf1c.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52440286058_eb81da38e6.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52440041759_eef8df4d5f.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52440218920_957615f1a6.jpg

I've decided that part of my problem is that the flanges on my mould aren't big enough as positioning the infusion and vacuum connectors is really quite difficult. As such I've decided to remake the mould and try again, so that's the next job.

In other news, I've cleaned up the garage a bit to make a better work space!

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52440286483_73e0677c35.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52440041844_b081f2eb8c.jpg

It's a lot better than it was, and gives me more room to work. My other 2 garages are full of bikes etc. so its nice to have one with a bit of work space for this!

Hopefully in my next update I'll have more to share, and maybe even some good carbon!
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2011 XT660Z Ténéré - 2003 YZR-R1 5PW (In Build)
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rpsmith79
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PostPosted: 09:18 - 20 Oct 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wowsers, more to this carbon fibre malarkey than i thought

Good effort so far though
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Ayrton
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PostPosted: 12:12 - 20 Oct 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been looking into making some carbon parts for my car but I didn't realise it was this expensive Laughing
This guy seems to have good videos on it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJNl1Um3WQA
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Nope.
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PostPosted: 15:20 - 03 Apr 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, it's been quite a while since I last posted an update on this! In the mean time time I've changed jobs (so I actually spend time at home now!), my girlfriend has moved in, and about 6000 other things have happened Laughing .

Last week I finally decided it was time, so I headed out the garage to make a new piece of tooling. I've wanted to make some replacement plastics for the Tenere for a while as the standard grey plastics they fit a) look bad, b) break, c) cost a fortune to replace, and d) can't be painted. So, I removed the right hand side pod and set to work!

Firstly, the side pod is a really awkward shape. Part of vacuum resin infusion carbon fibre manufacture requires a large external flange to be added to the part such that you can draw the resin through the part and have space for the infusion connectors. If the part is flat you can just put it onto a piece of fluted signboard and filet the edge with wax, job done. For a part like this it's more complicated, and I had to get creative. Additionally, the part has a mottled surface to it which I don't want to appear on the final surface, so I'm going to need to leave enough thickness of Gel that I can sand it out.

I started by flipping the part over and sticking some flash tape over the screw holes:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52790407989_d2b6502771.jpg

I originally tried building up Plasticine underneath the part to create the flange, but this proved too difficult to do, so I resulted to a different method. I cut small pieces of fluted signboard and started sticking them to the bottom of the part with hot glue:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52790174831_b781e237e5.jpg

I finished up the additions of the flange pieces and then added flashing tape over the gaps:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52790408249_0345e70865.jpg

I then added filleting wax around the edges to create a positive relief:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52790568255_c8573ebd45.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52790568655_49bf2d81d8.jpg

Once that was done, I mixed up the first layer of UG1 Tooling Gelcoat and catalysed it at 2%. I degassed the gelcoat for a couple of minutes in the degassing chamber, and then applied the first later over the part:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52789617642_f5e8f11be0.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52790175836_5e9e52f264.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52790409204_4aa1fd8963.jpg

I was a little concerned that quite a lot of gelcoat had gone down into the screw holes, and I wasn't sure if this would fully cure. I thought worst case scenario I'll just sand it out.

I then set a small heater going as it was about 12 centigrade in the garage and I wanted to raise the temperature for an hour or so to help the gelcoat exotherm:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52790623718_3b48f47f46.jpg

The next day I added a second thick layer of gelcoat to add additional thickness to sand into:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52790409364_d61f264c24.jpg

10 hours later, once the gel had cured to a light tack, I added 4 layers of 100gsm matting and coupling coat to the gel coat:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52790176541_dc36552e84.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52790624008_f10c3e1846.jpg

24 hours later it was fully cured and I started adding 4 layers of the tooling resin and thicker 450g emulsion bound chopped strand matt

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52790570310_899cbb55cb.jpg

Another 24 hours went past and that was fully cured:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52790624578_6cfea39838.jpg

I flipped the part over and started pulling off the flange material:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52790177446_9432d7e15c.jpg

I then started trying to remove the part. Parts are often hard to remove from moulds as obviously the moulds are fitted tightly to the parts, and despite this mould system having minimal shrinkage during exotherm, it still has a little bit. I wanted to be careful not to damage the surface of the mould, but I broke several demoulding tools trying to get this out! In the end I resorted to brute force and ignorance, and eventually it popped right out!

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52790410829_a965992a3b.jpg

I have to say, there is very little more satisfying than when that works perfectly as planned!

Now the part was out of the mould, I set about cutting the mould down to size with the Dremel:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52790624948_257fd8f964.jpg

As mentioned earlier, the surface of the part isn't smooth, and as such neither is the surface of the mould. In order to successfully pull a good part from this mould I need to sand the surface smooth, and so I started doing that with some 120 grit sand paper:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52789619972_ff914b9446.jpg

Slowly getting smoother:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52790178746_85d66ecd85.jpg

At this point I'd been sanding for a couple of hours and had developed a callus on my finger tip so I decided to stop for the day. However, by virtue of the way I made this mould there were a couple of unfortunate defects around the edge and on the flanges. These wouldn't do very well under vacuum, so I decided to repair them. I used more UG1 tooling gel coat, mixed in some wax additive solution, and catalysed it. I then degassed it, and whilst that was happening I affixed a small piece of fluted signboard inside the mould and sealed it with wax so I could fix one of the issues. The other areas I sanded and cleaned, and then when I was ready I used a popsicle stick to apply it:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52789616352_05812ed22a.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52790412169_7824ea3b0d.jpg

and that's where I left off! Hoping to find some time in the next couple of weeks to finish the work and start pulling parts from it!
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2011 XT660Z Ténéré - 2003 YZR-R1 5PW (In Build)
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Ayrton
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PostPosted: 22:41 - 03 Apr 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

What makes them unpaintable? My brother has the same tenere and is actually planning on painting his side panels this weekend. So far he's only flatted them down to get rid of the bumpy surface texture.
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Nope.
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PostPosted: 15:00 - 04 Apr 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ayrton wrote:
What makes them unpaintable? My brother has the same tenere and is actually planning on painting his side panels this weekend. So far he's only flatted them down to get rid of the bumpy surface texture.


No matter what primer you use, no matter how much you sand them, the paint just doesn't stick. There's tonnes of people online who've tried and failed. I painted one of mine red once, first wash of the bike all the paint came off!
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stinkwheel
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Joined: 12 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: 16:36 - 04 Apr 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

I bet paint would key if you used coloured 2-pack epoxy and flamed them first.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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