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c_dug
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Joined: 04 Sep 2007
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PostPosted: 10:38 - 13 Oct 2022    Post subject: Crash payout advice Reply with quote
A while back my Shiver 750 was written off in a non-fault crash.

Around a month ago I received an offer of settlement for £2850, which I declined as it is around £750-1000 short of what it would cost to replace the bike, I provided all required proofs of value.

A couple of days back I received a cheque for the £2850, the insurer have confirmed that they are still arguing for more and the £2850 may not be full settlement.

They have said they want to take back the courtesy bike as I have had some payment. Problem being £2850 doesn't buy me a suitable replacement, and without a bike my commuting cost will rocket. I could end up waiting several months for a some extra money that potentially never comes, and the train costs are horrific in that time.

Not sure where that leaves me, they've said that if I choose to keep the courtesy bike I could be liable for the additional hire costs so I feel a bit damned if I do and damned if I don't.

Any thoughts?
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Bhud
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Joined: 11 Oct 2018
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PostPosted: 11:01 - 13 Oct 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
I wouldn't accept that.

From the sound of things, they're offering this to you because the cost of the hire bike is an ongoing thing (it's got to be about £80 per day at least), and they want to stop that ongoing big bill getting even bigger. You've provided evidence for the bike's value. What evidence have they provided that it's worth any less? Ask them.
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MarJay
But it's British!



Joined: 15 Sep 2003
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PostPosted: 11:25 - 13 Oct 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
The hire bike will be a ripoff anyway. Have you got it in writing that the insurer is paying for the hire bike? Did a 'claims advisor' or 'claims handler' get involved at any time?

A quick search on ebay shows 3 750 shivers for under that value.
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c_dug
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Joined: 04 Sep 2007
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PostPosted: 13:45 - 13 Oct 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
The hire bike will be a ripoff anyway. Have you got it in writing that the insurer is paying for the hire bike? Did a 'claims advisor' or 'claims handler' get involved at any time?

Yes to all of the above.

MarJay wrote:
A quick search on ebay shows 3 750 shivers for under that value.


Only first generation bikes, for whatever reason the 2nd gen sells for more (mostly aesthetics I think). In any case it's more about what an equivalent bike can be bought for, the point is I shouldn't be worse off because somebody crashed into me!
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c_dug
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PostPosted: 14:16 - 13 Oct 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Bhud wrote:
I wouldn't accept that.

From the sound of things, they're offering this to you because the cost of the hire bike is an ongoing thing (it's got to be about £80 per day at least), and they want to stop that ongoing big bill getting even bigger. You've provided evidence for the bike's value. What evidence have they provided that it's worth any less? Ask them.


The 3rd party engineer says it's worth less, they never actually responded to my proof that it is worth more than they said. I have checked today and I could provide the same proof all over again if I needed to.

Doesn't sound like I have much choice in the matter anyway, the claims handler wants to take the bike back this weekend.
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Freddyfruitba...
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Joined: 20 May 2016
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PostPosted: 14:20 - 13 Oct 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
c_dug wrote:
The hire bike will be a ripoff anyway. Have you got it in writing that the insurer is paying for the hire bike? Did a 'claims advisor' or 'claims handler' get involved at any time?
Yes to all of the above.

The above sounds slightly odd to me (the fact that the insurer is 100% paying for the hire bike AND there's a claims handler involved). Claims handlers are shysters, and always push hire bikes, at exhorbitant fees, because that's where they get a huge kickback. There are plenty of stories around where claims have run on for months, the hire fees have massively outstripped the value of the original claim, and the claimant has blithely continued on assuming it's all going to get covered - and they end up having to pay it. I recently read exactly such a horror story by White Dalton in one of their blog articles they write for the bike mags - unfortunately can't find it now.

Just be Really Careful, that's all.
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MarJay
But it's British!



Joined: 15 Sep 2003
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PostPosted: 16:39 - 13 Oct 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
https://www.whitedalton.co.uk/motorbike-blog/2016/12/hire-bike-charges/

One example, but White Dalton generally have one every other month regarding the pitfalls of hire bikes.
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Freddyfruitba...
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Joined: 20 May 2016
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PostPosted: 17:36 - 13 Oct 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
MarJay wrote:
https://www.whitedalton.co.uk/motorbike-blog/2016/12/hire-bike-charges/
One example

Yep, that was the one!
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Bhud
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Joined: 11 Oct 2018
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PostPosted: 18:59 - 13 Oct 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
c_dug wrote:


Doesn't sound like I have much choice in the matter anyway, the claims handler wants to take the bike back this weekend.


That might actually be a good sign, because if they think they can't run up a bill against the other side then they might not run it up against you, either.

As per the White Dalton note of caution about hire bikes, I had a very similar issue a couple of years ago (if you can be bothered to dig around the forum for the thread). What spooked me was the cognitive dissonance between the lovely people I was dealing with (the claims handlers actually seemed like nice people) and the black-and-white contract they wanted me to sign for a hire bike. I read it, and it made me liable for the bill. I didn't want any part of it, so I didn't sign. However, they seemed like nice people - they were even interested in my bike! But that's just business. Whereas here, people appear to be wankers but I actually got really good advice. You just have to read carefully every single thing someone asks you to sign. It will all be in the small print. Someone may appear to be nice but it's all business. Sure, they will go after the other side, as that's how the insurance claims machine and their business model works. After that, if they're out of pocket (on the balance sheet for the time you had their bike), you don't want them to be looking at you.

Don't know about the value of the bike, but if the engineer says it's worth £n then that in itself is evidence of a sort. Maybe reconsider their offer.
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Ste
Not Work Safe



Joined: 01 Sep 2002
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PostPosted: 23:31 - 13 Oct 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Bhud wrote:
Don't know about the value of the bike, but if the engineer says it's worth £n then that in itself is evidence of a sort. Maybe reconsider their offer.

What the engineer says is all well and good but it doesn't take into account what it costs to buy an equivalent bike and that's what really matters.

The stories about people getting screwed over for the cost of the hire bike which was provided by the claims management cowboys is sadly all too predictable. Sad

In the absence of T.C I'd be tempted to see what /r/LegalAdviceUK has to say about it all. https://www.reddit.com/r/LegalAdviceUK/
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c_dug
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Joined: 04 Sep 2007
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PostPosted: 05:54 - 14 Oct 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ste wrote:
In the absence of T.C I'd be tempted to see what /r/LegalAdviceUK has to say about it all. https://www.reddit.com/r/LegalAdviceUK/


Pretty sure I'm banned from that sub Rolling Eyes I'll see.
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xX-Alex-Xx
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Joined: 12 Sep 2019
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PostPosted: 07:36 - 14 Oct 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Bhud wrote:
the lovely people I was dealing with (the claims handlers actually seemed like nice people)


"The bigger the smile, the sharper the knife" /48th rule of acquisition
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Tierbirdy
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Joined: 25 Jun 2014
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PostPosted: 07:56 - 14 Oct 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Had a similar issue when some ditzy cow wrote of my Fazer, they offered me something ridiculous like £800 for it. I argued the toss and sent them loads of listings for near identical Fazers being around the £2k mark and they agreed to up it to something like £1500. No idea if youve already tried that but might be worth a shot.

Despite the fact I dislocated my shoulder and couldnt ride for a month or so anyway, they gave me a hire bike the next day after the crash, dread to think how much that cost the other party Razz as the claim dragged on for almost a year and they didnt take the hire bike back til it was settled. Thankfully it didnt cost me a penny! Got lucky it seems reading those horror stories Shocked
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Freddyfruitba...
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Joined: 20 May 2016
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PostPosted: 11:23 - 14 Oct 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Tierbirdy wrote:
Despite the fact I dislocated my shoulder and couldnt ride for a month or so anyway, they gave me a hire bike the next day after the crash, dread to think how much that cost the other party Razz as the claim dragged on for almost a year and they didnt take the hire bike back til it was settled. Thankfully it didnt cost me a penny! Got lucky it seems reading those horror stories Shocked

Yes indeed - that's precisely the sort of instance where claimants get screwed over, regardless of fault... a case like this ends up in court and the judge takes issue with a hire bike having been taken on, and despite the third party possibly being 100% liable for the crash, refuses to order them to pay for the hire bike, which was clearly unusable. Not unreasonable really, as it was taking the piss... but guess who gets to pay for the bike then? Hint - not the claims handler.
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DJP
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Joined: 11 Dec 2011
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PostPosted: 10:16 - 16 Oct 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
All of that sounds in stark contrast to my experience last year, when I was rear-ended at the traffic lights (ooh-er, missus!) by white van man.

A quick peruse of MCN showed dealers asking £5400 for similar age/mileage bikes to mine.

And that's exactly what the third party insurer subsequently offered.

I used Bike Assist legal (recommended by my insurers) and they have a guarantee that you won't be liable for hire bike costs.
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