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So is the EU crumbling from within?

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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 14:35 - 26 Oct 2022    Post subject: So is the EU crumbling from within? Reply with quote

Val wrote:

Post a thread about the EU I will be more then happy to discuss all the EU shortcomings.


So, does Germanys cancellation of their regular joint cabinet meeting with France indicate deeper rifts appearing in the EU experiment?

"After a pause for Covid, these encounters were meant to resume at Fontainebleau on Wednesday. But faced with a glaring lack of common ground - as well, according to France, as the studied uninterest of several German ministers - it was agreed to call the session off."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-63389717
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Val
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PostPosted: 14:54 - 26 Oct 2022    Post subject: Re: So is the EU crumbling from within? Reply with quote

stinkwheel wrote:
Val wrote:

Post a thread about the EU I will be more then happy to discuss all the EU shortcomings.


So, does Germanys cancellation of their regular joint cabinet meeting with France indicate deeper rifts appearing in the EU experiment?

"After a pause for Covid, these encounters were meant to resume at Fontainebleau on Wednesday. But faced with a glaring lack of common ground - as well, according to France, as the studied uninterest of several German ministers - it was agreed to call the session off."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-63389717


No EU is not crumbling down.

There are 27 independent countries in the EU. Each country has its own interests and goals. Sometimes they disagree. But even Orban said he will never leave the EU.

The UK is the only country that has given up the whole single market and all EU freedoms for literally nothing in exchange.

Next question Laughing
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Val
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PostPosted: 15:02 - 26 Oct 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

EU is not ideal. But it is working more or less.

There are hundreds of things that can be fixed within the EU.

Probably the most important ones are related to security and investing more in military power.

But we are working on it. Like EU rapid response force and EU Space Strategy for Security and Defence:

https://www.eeas.europa.eu/eeas/strategic-compass-security-and-defence-1_en

I guess the UK also be part of all military cooperation.

Which begs the question why on Earth you guys left?

Given the fact that we are allies and the UK always will be EU ally especially about security and defense.
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 15:07 - 26 Oct 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can you just shut the fuck up about brexit.

It's done. No going back.


The constant I told you so is tedious in the extreme and as a result you just come across as a twat.
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A100man
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PostPosted: 15:37 - 26 Oct 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can't take a shit in the EU without the other 26 saying it's Ok.

Hence the Krauts are in shtuck for doling out loads of energy subs..

''Unfair, unfair' cry France, Italy, Spain et al.
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Rob Fzs
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PostPosted: 17:01 - 26 Oct 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

We'd never know, the Press here was never interested in reporting on the ins and out's of what happens in the EU, the best reason to leave it.

They're very interested in the laws the EU made that we might remove and recodify as our own though Thinking
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 17:24 - 26 Oct 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Val wrote:


Probably the most important ones are related to security and investing more in military power.

But we are working on it. Like EU rapid response force and EU Space Strategy for Security and Defence:

https://www.eeas.europa.eu/eeas/strategic-compass-security-and-defence-1_en

I guess the UK also be part of all military cooperation.

Which begs the question why on Earth you guys left?

Given the fact that we are allies and the UK always will be EU ally especially about security and defense.


I think you just stated one of the top reasons to have got the hell out of the EU.

When the British public narrowly voted to join the EEC in the 70's, it was a trading partnership plain and simple. If it had remained as such, we would still be members but it has crept into something more like a central government, interfering with all aspects of the business of running a country and using access to the trading block as a sword hanging over the heads of any dissenters. If there had been any hint of a centralised military policy dictated by Brussels in the 70's, it wouldn't have made it as far as a referrendum, we wouldnt even have considered becoming a member.

It's morphed into something else entirely which the people of Britain did not want. It's also clear that the UK and its veto were the only thing keeping this nonsense at bay. Even when we were in the EU and tried smaller scale cooperative defence projects, we were left footing the bill... Eurofighter anyone?

Yes, I'm sure the UK will be entirely open to discussions on defence cooperation with our neighbouring countries but from a position of making decisions based on our own interests, not on the basis of deciding to ratify or not decisions made by the European Commission.

This is a perfect example of somewhere the EU has vastly overstepped its remit and purpose and a perfect example of why I for one, wanted my country out of it.
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 18:27 - 26 Oct 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

That military power won’t be going up against Russia, it’ll be dispatched to suppress rebellion in the smaller states angered by policy decisions which they’ll have had no veto on.

Edit. As things grow they sow the seeds of their own destruction.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 20:24 - 26 Oct 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Meloni as new Italian PM. That might throw a cat among the pigeons, certainly won't help to hold the EU together. Clampdown from Brussels incoming!
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 11:49 - 27 Oct 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Val wrote:
Which begs the question why on Earth you guys left?


LMAO, who writes this stuff for you?
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 13:16 - 27 Oct 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Easy-X wrote:
Val wrote:
Which begs the question why on Earth you guys left?


LMAO, who writes this stuff for you?


The fact that he has to ask the question is a good reason to have left the EU.
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MCN
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PostPosted: 13:24 - 27 Oct 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

chickenstrip wrote:
Meloni as new Italian PM. That might throw a cat among the pigeons, certainly won't help to hold the EU together. Clampdown from Brussels incoming!


Melonini and Adolf Poo-Tin only need one other Nationalist to make the perfect storm.
Hungary aye seem to back the wrong horse whenever there's any conflicts.

WWII was around ten years in the making after Hitler cemented his position as chancellor of Germany. Its difficult to read what megalomania will surface.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 13:29 - 27 Oct 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

MCN wrote:
chickenstrip wrote:
Meloni as new Italian PM. That might throw a cat among the pigeons, certainly won't help to hold the EU together. Clampdown from Brussels incoming!


Melonini and Adolf Poo-Tin only need one other Nationalist to make the perfect storm.
Hungary aye seem to back the wrong horse whenever there's any conflicts.

WWII was around ten years in the making after Hitler cemented his position as chancellor of Germany. Its difficult to read what megalomania will surface.


Which of Meloni's policies have you lumping her in with Hitler? I mean, I get that she's on the right of modern politics, but so is Stalin Laughing
I honestly have no idea what Meloni's policies are, just vague notions of her being representative of the Fourth Reich from a media I haven't trusted in quite some time.

To me, collusion of governments with corporate power and a media that pushes that agenda seems pretty far to the right.
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bhinso
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PostPosted: 14:26 - 27 Oct 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

The EU is the last Bastion of humanity and anything negative (Energy Crisis, Covid, War in Ukraine, WWII, WWI, St Brice's Day massacre, etc. etc.) is all the fault of Brexit.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 17:48 - 27 Oct 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

So how is the Russia/Ukraine war the fault of Brexit? Google's not turning much up Smile
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Val
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PostPosted: 18:14 - 27 Oct 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Easy-X wrote:
So how is the Russia/Ukraine war the fault of Brexit? Google's not turning much up Smile


It is.
Quote:

Vladimir Putin "used" the UK's exit from the EU to "destabilise" the West.


https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1574493/brexit-news-ukraine-war-vladimir-putin-russia-invasion-exit-eu-spt


Also the Ukraine war put an end to Brexit illusions for global Britain:

https://www.ft.com/content/76614c19-65a3-4fb5-8f40-c7951ba2ef68

Quote:
Russia’s invasion of Ukraine is forcing western nations to rethink core assumptions. In the UK, it means the end of Brexit illusions of a new direction for “Global Britain”.

The crisis hammers home the fact that the UK cannot escape its geography. Lofty dreams of reorienting British thinking with an Indo-Pacific tilt will now be subordinated as focus returns squarely to the overwhelming priority, which means recognising that the UK’s own security is inextricably linked with Europe’s.


bhinso wrote:
The EU is the last Bastion of humanity and anything negative (Energy Crisis, Covid, War in Ukraine, WWII, WWI, St Brice's Day massacre, etc. etc.) is all the fault of Brexit.


Finally somebody is talking sense here Laughing

Seriously Putin would have never attacked Ukraine without thinking the the West is divided. Which is true. The west is divided and weak.
Tell me how Brexit has made the West more stronger?

And the energy crisis is direct consequence of the division and the weakness of the West (I mean US, UK and EU).

So the fault is divided between Brexit and the weak leadership in the West. If we had Reagan instead of Trump/Biden.

Obviously not Boris he is very strong leader. I think Boris is like Churchill. If Churchill has spen the 1930s in Italy partying with his nazi friends and made some of them Lords that is.
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Last edited by Val on 18:20 - 27 Oct 2022; edited 1 time in total
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 18:17 - 27 Oct 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do they have mental health services in whichever country you reside in? If so I really suggest you self-refer.
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Val
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PostPosted: 18:22 - 27 Oct 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobby the Bastard wrote:
Do they have mental health services in whichever country you reside in? If so I really suggest you self-refer.


No but we have lumpenproletariat anonymous here. Come and join Laughing
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 18:37 - 27 Oct 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm pretty sure it was the whole annexing Crimea and getting away with it thing that lead to the current issues in Ukraine.

While you may be correct in your assertion the Ukranian invasion happened because Putin thought the West was weak, he annexed Crimea two years before the Brexit referrendum.

Or maybe he invaded Ukraine because he was worried about how strong the West has become and feels threatened?
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 19:46 - 27 Oct 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

And election of the weakest American president in history had no influence on Putin's decision Rolling Eyes
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 19:48 - 27 Oct 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Val wrote:


Which begs the question why on Earth you guys left?


Well, the EU hardly made much of an effort to persuade the UK to stay. I can't remember any action after Cameron announced there would be a refferendum taken by the EU to try and get me to vote stay. It seemed very "im leaving", "ok here are your bags", "ok, see ya" to me.
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 20:01 - 27 Oct 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ribenapigeon wrote:
Val wrote:


Which begs the question why on Earth you guys left?


Well, the EU hardly made much of an effort to persuade the UK to stay. I can't remember any action after Cameron announced there would be a refferendum taken by the EU to try and get me to vote stay. It seemed very "im leaving", "ok here are your bags", "ok, see ya" to me.

Didn’t they deliberately stay out of it, at Cameron’s behest, for fear of winding us up? I think Guy Verhofstadt was keen to come and lecture us. He’s still at it.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 20:06 - 27 Oct 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Before the vote, he went to them and said "I'm here to re-negotiate some points of the EU treaties. If I come back with nothing, I'll have no option other than to hold a referrendum on leaving the EU.".

He came back with nothing.
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 20:08 - 27 Oct 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Easy-X wrote:
And election of the weakest American president in history had no influence on Putin's decision Rolling Eyes


probably more to do with the previous president sucking his cock and he missed it.
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A100man
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PostPosted: 20:16 - 27 Oct 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

stinkwheel wrote:
I'm pretty sure it was the whole annexing Crimea and getting away with it thing that lead to the current issues in Ukraine.

While you may be correct in your assertion the Ukranian invasion happened because Putin thought the West was weak, he annexed Crimea two years before the Brexit referrendum.

Or maybe he invaded Ukraine because he was worried about how strong the West has become and feels threatened?


..plus he knew he had the west by the 'short and curlies' wrt to their energy supply. UK only left EU not the far more significant (to him) NATO so Brexit immaterial.
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