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bhinso
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PostPosted: 14:23 - 27 Oct 2022    Post subject: This one boiled my p155 Reply with quote

Found this one last night, all my horrible right wing sites (e.g. Daily Mail) pointed me towards it:

"Teen jailed for stabbing intruder to death when he burst into his bedroom"

https://metro.co.uk/2022/10/26/ireland-dean-kerrie-jailed-over-waterford-home-intruder-killing-17645858/

TLDR: Some pissed up bloke broke into this kid's house (believing he'd damaged his car). Used a rock through the window to break in. Enters the bedroom. The 17 year old (defending himself and his mother) stabbed him once and unfortunately killed him.

Gets a >3 year prison sentence. Reduced because he 'showed remorse' (not sure I would have). However, apparently length of sentence increased because intruder was unarmed (you're supposed to ask first???)

Intruder's family: "He was exceptionally hard working, role model, fli hi my angle, etc. etc"

Seems a 'bit' harsh to me.
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 14:36 - 27 Oct 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

He 'found the knife next to the bed in his room' despite it being his and then stabbed him. That implies he was already tooled up.
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xX-Alex-Xx
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PostPosted: 14:43 - 27 Oct 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doesn't say what kind of knife though? Could have been something as simple used for making airfix models in his bedroom ....
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Ste
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PostPosted: 15:23 - 27 Oct 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bit harsh?

"The 999 calls were recorded and in one of the recordings a male can be heard shouting: "You come into this house and I shall take your life". Mr Delaney said there will be evidence to establish that this was said after Mr Power had been stabbed and not beforehand."
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Rob Fzs
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PostPosted: 16:53 - 27 Oct 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobby the Bastard wrote:
He 'found the knife next to the bed in his room' despite it being his and then stabbed him. That implies he was already tooled up.


my mrs had the same shit for intruders when she lived on her own
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 17:29 - 27 Oct 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a feeling there was an "established relationship" between the two Thinking And stabbing someone straight in the heart? How easy is that to do on the first attempt?
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Lord Percy
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PostPosted: 13:42 - 02 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds about right to me.

Judge can't exactly say "Well done for defending yourself, I'll go easy on you", you have to take it for what it is and charge for bog standard manslaughter. Most fights don't end in death.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 16:35 - 02 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Greetings, Lord Percy!

In America they have "stand your ground" laws but AFAIK we don't have the equivalent in the UK - "Killing is bad, m'kay." Tempting as it might be to have more rights to defend yourself the more err... urban areas of the US are a hellscape of shootings and deaths. For example:

Detroit, population ~700,000, murders in 2021 ~300
London, population ~10million, murders in 2021 ~120

Shocked
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mentalboy
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PostPosted: 01:26 - 04 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just being in possession of those ears should be a criminal offence. Laughing
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Bhud
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PostPosted: 01:54 - 04 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Irish case
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 11:27 - 04 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bhud wrote:
Irish case


Good point.
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Ayrton
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PostPosted: 12:19 - 04 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lord Percy wrote:
Sounds about right to me.

Judge can't exactly say "Well done for defending yourself, I'll go easy on you", you have to take it for what it is and charge for bog standard manslaughter. Most fights don't end in death.

Most fights don't happen in your bedroom at the dead of night either. I think it's fair enough to defend yourself in such a way when someone enters your house and you don't know what they're intentions are.
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Lord Percy
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PostPosted: 12:40 - 04 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Easy-X wrote:
Greetings, Lord Percy!



Very Happy

Yeah it seems the US is a bit different. Their trigger-happy culture seems a world away from UK / Europe, I can understand why yanks might have some sort of 'right to defend yourself' rulings. However, it still doesn't look like a good thing to me, it just legitimises the fact that those folk live in a violent society. It isn't a solution, it's a lubricant allowing the violence continue through a legal framework.
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Lord Percy
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PostPosted: 12:46 - 04 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ayrton wrote:
Lord Percy wrote:
Sounds about right to me.

Judge can't exactly say "Well done for defending yourself, I'll go easy on you", you have to take it for what it is and charge for bog standard manslaughter. Most fights don't end in death.

Most fights don't happen in your bedroom at the dead of night either. I think it's fair enough to defend yourself in such a way when someone enters your house and you don't know what they're intentions are.


In some circumstances yes, but there isn't enough context. I think this news story was printed just to generate clicks and chatter (which is exactly what's happening in this thread).

To really know the right/wrong of the situation, we'd need to know how and why the guy was stabbed. For all we know, he broke the door down then stood there in a benign huff. Some people just want to lump around, damage inanimate objects and appear threatening. To stab him in the body for that is a bit much.

The ultra-sensible (but not realistic) option would be to just GTFO and call the police to detain the guy. The stabbing option seems like textbook manslaughter, even in self defence.

The same altercation could have happened in public or in the workplace. Would stabbing be okay then? Just because you're in your own home, it shouldn't give you any extra rights to kill people.
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duhawkz
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PostPosted: 13:22 - 04 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

If someone breaks into your home intent on causing harm. Then I'd fully support the use of force necessary to protect yourself even if that ends up being lethal.

Reasonable force and all that.
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 13:39 - 04 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, so would I. But this was beyond reasonable force.
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Ayrton
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PostPosted: 16:25 - 04 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lord Percy wrote:

To really know the right/wrong of the situation, we'd need to know how and why the guy was stabbed. For all we know, he broke the door down then stood there in a benign huff. Some people just want to lump around, damage inanimate objects and appear threatening. To stab him in the body for that is a bit much.

The ultra-sensible (but not realistic) option would be to just GTFO and call the police to detain the guy. The stabbing option seems like textbook manslaughter, even in self defence.

The same altercation could have happened in public or in the workplace. Would stabbing be okay then? Just because you're in your own home, it shouldn't give you any extra rights to kill people.

He didn't just open the door and stand there though, the judge even said he assaulted him after entering the room. Sounds to me like he was intent on harming the guy.

Someone attacking you in public with people around is totally different to someone bursting into your room while you are sleeping Laughing
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duhawkz
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PostPosted: 16:45 - 04 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobby the Bastard wrote:
Oh, so would I. But this was beyond reasonable force.


I'm struggling to see how based solely on that metro article.

It says the guy bust into his house, assaulted his mum and stormed up stairs to kick fuck out of him.

The defendant was smaller and skinner, and he stabbed him once in the chest unfortunately he died.

If he stabbed him multiple times in the back then I'd agree that would be unreasonable.
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MCN
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PostPosted: 17:00 - 04 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's really easy to stab someone to death with one stab. There are many points in chest that don't fair well when punctured.
Heart injuries most likely causes spasm or loss of suction to fill heart ventricles.
And there's a couple of big blood pipes in there too.

So a stab to the middle of the chest is probably highly fatal.

Example of how easy it is to have a murder weapon to hand. If you're a Sikh you can carry a wee murder tool as part of your fanatical religious regalia.
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to v or not to v
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PostPosted: 21:47 - 04 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

MCN wrote:

Example of how easy it is to have a murder weapon to hand. If you're a Sikh you can carry a wee murder tool as part of your fanatical religious regalia.


the Scots are way more cunning though, they just kill you slowly with deep fried, battered, everything. Mr. Green
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Freddyfruitba...
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PostPosted: 14:36 - 05 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

MCN wrote:
So a stab to the middle of the chest is probably highly fatal.

How easy is it get through the ribcage though? Just asking...

MCN wrote:
If you're a Sikh you can carry a wee murder tool as part of your fanatical religious regalia.

Hmm - how do you pronounce "sgian dubh"? Wink
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