Advice on a pathetic main dealer service

[Bunzena]

Hi. Need some advice on problems with a recent main dealer service. [Honda].

It's a relatively new bike - so to keep the warranty going - just had the first, full-year service done by my local dealer - last Tuesday.

Where I bought the bike in the first place.

I then rode the bike home [around 12 miles] and it's sat in the garage since then.

Just gone out to discover a large pool of oil under the bike.

Crawling underneath - I discovered the sump plug hadn't been tightened. So loose I could rotate it with my fingers.

I'll be going back to the dealer on Monday to rant about this.

But my question relates this the next issue.

I spy the oil filter - which has been changed.

There are copious amounts of red grease around the seal - enough to be spilling over on to the crankcase/oil pan. It's like it's been applied with a butter knife.

It's ugly and filthy. I have a slight suspicion that there's a little oil leak there too.

My question is this.

Whenever I've replaced an oil filter, I NEVER use grease. Just a little rub of engine oil on to the o-ring and then tighten it up - gently.

I understood that using grease is completely the wrong thing to do - and can even damage the o-ring.

Maybe they had to use grease because they over-tightened the oil filter when fitting it in the first place? Like plumbers putty. The filter certainly feels tighter than 'hand tight'.

It feels as if the whole service has been done by the trainee - no care or attention paid.

Before I go back to the dealer on Monday and let rip - any thoughts on this?

Thank you.

[Nobby the Bastard]

First off, red grease won't damage seals. It's meant for brake seals and fluid so won't affect the engine shit.

Secondly, Immediately call dealer and reject it for not being fit for purpose.

Do not touch it. You want them to collect and return your money.

Edit:realised the 12 miles is not the total miles done.

Speak to the dealer and explain about the pool of oil and demand it's fixed and the mess cleaned up.
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha:"Remember this simple rule - scooters are for men who like to feel the breeze on their huge, flapping cunt lips."
Sprint ST 1050

[Bhud]

I've never seen any manual, whether manufacturer's own, or Haynes, that advises to put grease on the oil filter seal. The O-ring seal is designed to hold oil and seal up any leaks.

On the type of oil filter which is fully enclosed, I can't think of any purpose for slathering grease on an oil filter seal.

If the technician routinely does this with fully enclosed oil filters, then I believe that in the past he's had problems caused by O-rings that didn't seal, either because they have come loose while tightening the oil filter and got twisted up, or because there was dirt in between the seal and the filter, or the seal and the engine. The proper way to avoid leaks is to clean up all mating surfaces, then fit the filter. Some people put fresh oil on the O-ring, because they believe the O-ring will swell and make a better seal like that. However, I've never heard of anyone using grease. Grease is not designed to form a hermetic seal anyway.

On some bikes (which use non-enclosed oil filters), the oil filter rests on a disc with a holed bolt to flow oil in the centre, which also holds a little spring that pushes up the oil filter. I don't know if don't have one of those, but in that case the disc has its own O-ring seal - different from the one on the oil filter. This must be replaced whenever the oil filter is replaced - you shouldn't just order an oil filter alone for those bikes, but one of those additional O-ring seals as well. I don't know if the technician had one to hand. If he didn't (just speculating here) maybe it didn't seal properly when he fitted the new filter, and it started leaking, so he had to dump the oil again and refit it, and tried to solve the issue with grease. If he did have one, then there's a bit of a knack to getting the new O-ring seal into the recess on the disc. Not rocket science, but everything has to be clean and dry, then you coax it in with your fingers. It pops out here and there. If you aren't patient then you may be tempted to use grease as a sort of glue to stick the O-ring in place and stop it sticking out. That may or may not work, but it isn't necessary.

[Bunzena]

Thanks Bhud, thanks Nobby. Good thoughts and advice.

It's a cartridge type filter - so I think there are two O-rings.

A small one on the feed and a larger one on the perimeter.

Also aware that a cartridge filter shouldn't be over-tightened - or else it will leak.

My suspicion is [like yours Bhud] - that the numpty who did the service has had problems with leaks after fitting the filter before - so now uses grease like plumber's putty to stop that happening.

To be honest - this is not the first problem I've had with this dealer.

[stinkwheel]

Grease is "engineers glue", commonly used to hold things like an o-ring in place while they are put where they are supposed to be. The o-rings on oil filters are designed to cope with hot engine oil, grease is pretty much just thick oil so a smear of grease on the o-ring on a filter will not do it any harm.

In my experience, if a filter o-ring on a modern japanese bike is going to leak, it will do it almost immediately and in large quantity.

A loose (or worse, stripped!) sump plug is super dangerous though, first it dumps oil under your rear tyre, then -if you manage to stay on- it seizes your engine.
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“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[Robby]

My thinking is that if they failed to tighten up the sump plug, what else could they have fucked up.

Luckily, being a first service, probably not very much. I assume the whole service is basically an oil change and a check over.

Either way, call the dealer. I would expect them to be quite apologetic and want to get it back in for a proper check over by a different mechanic.

[Bunzena]

Robby - these are my thoughts too. As you say - apart from a long list of things that they supposedly checked - just an oil and filter change.

However, this is not the first time I've had problems.

Bike originally supplied [new] with a scratched screen. They did replace but forgot to re-fit a number of the nylon spacers. [Only discovered when I fitted a larger screen replacement].

Bike also supplied with the drive chain over-tight. [Less than 15mm of movement - measured correctly]. I simply adjusted it myself.

Bike supplied with scratched section on handlebars - with scrapes and paint missing. Only discovered this later as it was on the bottom surface. Fixed this myself.

Had some extras fitted after a month or so [weren't available at the time I collected the bike from new]. Discovered that some of the bodywork pop-studs were missing. Fixed that myself.

A week or two later I discovered a blanking plug that was removed to fit a USB charger jammed between the crankcases and injector unit. Presumably where it had simply been dropped during fitting.

Of course I should have complained about each of the above - but I didn't. Lack of time, distance to the dealership, etc. So maybe part of all this is my own fault.

At this stage, I don't want them near the bike again. So rather than getting them to fix it - I want my money back for the service and then I will correct the problems.

However, I will vent my 'disappointment' with them face to face.

[stinkwheel]

[Bunzena]

[Nobby the Bastard]

The grease won't hold on a filter if the threads are stripped, it's there purely to help the seal to slige nicely so it can be tightened correctly and get a good seal.
____________________
trevor saxe-coburg-gotha:"Remember this simple rule - scooters are for men who like to feel the breeze on their huge, flapping cunt lips."
Sprint ST 1050

[Kentol750]

Did they re-use the old washer or fit a new one? It's normally standard procedure to fit a new one.
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Some bikes.

[Bunzena]

[MCN]

Jesus.... these folk are trying to run a business, to provide them and any of their investors with profits.

Don't be so bloody harsh on them you heartless sod.

They won't be paying their mechanics a fair day's pay so they will be struggling to hire competence.

I haven't been near a dealer for Service in over ten years.

There was no point in me helping to keep their workshop lights on all thpse years, as when I had significant issues with new-ish bikes they stopped being courteous and turned into devious kunts and bastirts.
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Disclaimer: The comments above may be predicted text and not necessarily the opinion of MCN.

[Bunzena]

[Robby]

I would not be concerned about the red grease. It sounds like the sort of thing done by an experienced mechanic to make sure the O-ring stays in place. Just in this case, an experienced mechanic who was rushing and made silly/sloppy mistakes.

Getting a refund is going to be like pulling teeth. I would aim for getting it done right without making any threats - let them think they're trying to retain a customer. Then go somewhere else for future servicing.

[Easy-X]

[Bunzena]

Thanks to all the advice given. Very helpful.

Went back to the dealer today and saw the owner - armed with pictures, a video of the not-even-finger-tight-sump-plug and a letter detailing the issues from this service and six or seven others from previous ham-fisted work done. Checked over by a solicitor.

He tried to say they could do nothing until "properly investigated".

I stood my ground and got all my money back there and then. To be honest - he knew the game was up.

The owner claimed that this was a complete one-off. If you Google their reviews - this is clearly not the case.

He had a go at me for not mentioning ALL of the previous problems and - instead - fixing some myself.

I explained I had a life to lead and a job to hold down rather than be their Quality Control department. And that Quality Control was something that should happen before crap work is handed back to the customer - and then become their responsibility.

My next nearest main dealer is more than twice as far away - but I won't be going back to this one.

The plan always was to service and fix the bike myself when out of warranty.

[gbrand42]

Seems to be a lot of this I am hearing about lately. A bit off-topic (car related) but my Mrs has just had a main dealer service on her 3 cylinder car and I looked at the invoice and saw they charged her for 4 spark plugs at £18 a throw plus VAT. IF they do that every time a 3 cylinder car comes in for work thats a lot of £20's. Of course they claimed an honest mistake and refunded straight away, but how many slip through the net I wonder.
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Yamaha RD50M, Honda C90, Yamaha RS100, Yamaha RD125LC, Honda XL125 V9 Varadero, Honda NT700VA, Honda VFR800X, Honda CRF1000L, Honda ST1300 Pan European

[Pete.]

[A100man]

Hmm so I see that..

Kent Motorcyccles
Maidstone Honda
and 21st Moto

all have 4.6 * google review.. coiuld be out of teh frying pan...

..didn't I read once that as long as you use genuine parts an independent can service without affecting warranty
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Now: A100, GT250A, XJ598, FZ750

Then: Fizz, RS200, KL250, XJ550, Laverda Alpina, XJ600, FZS600

[MCN]

[xX-Alex-Xx]

[Bunzena]

[fw750x]

I would NOT Waste any time Contacting ANYONE at Honda UK . In the Early 90,s I bought a BRAND NEW Honda Transalp from an Approved Honda Dealer In Belfast , With around 200 Miles on the Clock ( there was 16 Miles ) On the Clock when i bought it , The Chain Snapped when i was Slowing Down in a 30 Zone for a Traffic light. This was after about 6 weeks of Ringing and Calling into the Stealers to get my Service Book as they could not find it and would get me one. I asked for a New Chain and was told the Drive Chain is Not covered under warranty and they would not even meet me half way with the Cost of a New Chain. I went to another Shop and bought a Chain there , I went home and fitted the Chain and was wiring in a Ciggie Lighter Socket to power my Air Compressor and when i took off the Side Panel there was the Service Book. I took it out and Opened it to fill it in and It was Already Filled in Someone else Had Bought it some months earlier and Suprise Suprise His bike was Red and White and my Bike was the Blue and white Model . I was Fuming and Rang the Guy and he told me the Bike broke down when he was going home hence the 16 Miles already on the Clock and Rejected the Bike and Got his Money Back. I contaced HONDA UK about the Chain Breaking and Being Sold a Second Hand Rejected Bike , I had to send the Chain at my expence to Honda UK so that they could decide what caused the Chain to Snap , They wrote back and said something got into the run of the Chain and broke it So it was not covered by the warranty . The Fact that a Honda Approved Dealer was Selling Second Hand Bikes as Brand New Bikes was Nothing to do with them and to take it up with the Stealer ( The Body work was Swapped ) off another bike . I vowed then i would Never buy another Honda Product either New or Second hand , So Honda UK have missed out on 3 Brand New Bike Sales and Servicing THERE Loss not mine . It will be a Complete waste of your time contacting them as they dont want to know . Cheers Francis

[Nobby the Bastard]