The reality of top quality suspension?

[F0ulOli]

Here's a question that's been bugging me for ages, and I hope some can answer it.

I have a Ktm Duke 790, and am tempted to get the Duke 890r Purely because it has adjustable suspension.

However, I got a thought.

What if I just got my suspension set up by a professional company, so it was ideally sprung for my weight, would that be a better quality suspension set up than what comes as standard on a bike with adjustable suspension?

What would improve on standard suspension that was already set up for you personally, when you only ride it a bit quick on the road?

I am just wondering about how to spend my money most wisely, knowing that a part ex is going to cost me just as much as buying a personalised suspension set up.

And before anyone asks, I like my pies and am the wrong side of 18st in my leathers.
____________________
<enter personality here>

[stinkwheel]

Getting the spring rate and preload right is probably the most important thing. You can have the best damping setup in the world and it will still ride like a bagowank if the springs are wrong.

I don't think Dukes are regarded as having crappy suspension to begin with.

If we were talking something with shit-tier damper rod forks and preload only shock, then upgrading is definitely worthwhile.

What you're more asking is is upgrading mid-tier suspension to top-shelf stuff worth it? Probably not in a lot of cases. There comes a point where you're paying more for less weight and more adjustability. Rule of diminishing returns applies. Is it worth replacing a steel bolt with a titanium one?

At 18st, a re-spring will work wonders.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[MarJay]

For most riders, yes better suspension is noticeable if it's set up right. So the 890R will be better than the 790. However, at 18 stone the spring rate will likely be wrong on either bike, so you'll find a bigger improvement from a correct spring rate because the 890R may well have too low a spring rate too.

All things being equal, the 890R will be better, but if you've got to change the springs anyway, what's the point of upgrading?
____________________
British beauty: Triumph Street Triple R; Loony stroker: KR1S; Track fun: GSXR750 L1; Commuter Missile: GSX-S1000F
Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another.

[Ayrton]

I'd have a go at setting the suspension up yourself, it's not hard to do. Just involves sitting on the bike while someone measures the how much it moves to get your "sag" and then adjust the shock until it's where it needs to be. But like everyone else has said you may find you cant get the figures you need even on max preload so you'd have to get new springs.

Dave Moss has some really good videos on suspension
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RuqhQf4xk4

[A100man]

[Feasty]

Firstly, I'm certainly no expert - but I'm also the high side of 18st by a few. The only time I actually noticed any difference in suspension settings was when I had a BMW F650 and the rear wheel was bumping up against the underneath of the seat, the shock just needed adjusting to the opposite end!

For every other bike I've ever had, I just adjust the shock to be as solid as it can be. I've never noticed when I've made smaller adjustments, I can still ride quick over bumps, round roundabouts etc whilst sticking to the road. I very much doubt I'd notice any real difference by spending a few hundred getting the setup to match me better.
I've always thought spending money/time on this kind of setup is more for professionals or track racers - but I'm happy to be convinced otherwise
____________________
Previous: Aprilia Habana Retro 50cc (beauty), Yamaha SR125 (fell apart), Honda XR125 (nippy little commuter), Honda SLR650 (Geewhizz), Yamaha Diversion 900S (Smoooooth) written off courtesy of a stupid escaped horse.
(7 year gap), BMW F650 (Relaxing ride). Aprilia Caponord ETV1000 (Big and bold). Yamaha FZS600 (got me in trouble too quick!).
Current: Yamaha TDM 900 (Comfy, light but big, power when needed).

[stinkwheel]

AT 18st, adjusting preload alone isn't going to cut it.

I'm not far off 18st. I fitted the correct rate linear springs to my VFR and there was night and day of difference. Same when I fitted a wilbers shock with a spring rated to my weight.

Spring rate, THEN sag, then damping.

There are various online spring rate calculators or get a shop who know what they're doing to work it out for you.

Racking the preload up on an undersprung bike is just going to reduce the amount of travel available before bottoming, it'll be shite.

@Feasty. You are missing a trick. You don't have to spend a fortune getting someone to work it out for you, there are plenty of online spring calculators and the springs themselves aren't THAT expensive. If you go from riding around with the preload maxed-out to fitting the right spring will feel like you're on a magic carpet ride.

Caveat that I'd be terrified changing a shock spring unless I had a proper compressor tool, and even then I'd be a tad concerned about the whole affair. Fork springs are easy though.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[chickenstrip]

[redeem ouzzer]

Best money you can spend on a bike IMHO. A lot of tits who buy silly exhausts and other bling would get far more out of the biking experience spending the money on decent tires and a bespoke suspension setup.
____________________
Be a REAL MAN!

[sickpup]

[Zen Dog]

Short version is, your current suspension properly set up for you, is likely to be better than more expensive suspension on default settings.
____________________
Current - '94 VFR750FR, '00 VFR800FI Previous - '10 Street Triple R, '92 MZ ETZ301, '05 TTR250, NSR125R, KMX125, "Honda" Win (chinese copy of an old Honda design with a C90 engine)
My bike trip around S.E. Asia 2010/2011

[F0ulOli]

[F0ulOli]

Thanks for your replies,

This has confirmed what I was thinking but wanted to read it in black and white.

Think I'll book myself into Maxton in the new year and get the job done right.
____________________
<enter personality here>

[Pete.]

[MCN]

I would have a stab at maximum weight for a bike and say 15st is pushing it.
Then we are in Hardly Dae-Anything Territory. (Ass-less Chaps, Muscle Magazines and things of that nature.)
16/1700cc V-Twins etc.
Indians, Goldwings, Trikes.
Phatarse Murikan bikes.
It's simple fizzix. Innit?
____________________
Disclaimer: The comments above may be predicted text and not necessarily the opinion of MCN.

[stinkwheel]

Well, yes and no. Most bikes are designed to carry two people.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[grr666]

Last bike (Mk 1 MT09) had very basic suspension, it was ridiculous over 80mph on anything but the smoothest of roads.
A trip to JHS Racing for a setup made it feel a lot less fatal although James did also also suggest I ran at a different
tyre pressure settings to the manufacturers recommended pressures as well, since there was so little adjustment on the
suspension. The bike felt a lot better after this relatively minor fettle by someone who knows what they are doing. I
most certainly do not.

The new bike (Mark 2 MT10) has clearly better suspension components front and rear, and is fully adjustable. I wouldn't
know where to start in terms of adjusting it, on stock settings it feels loads better than my last bike did already but
I'm certain that it can be tailored to suit me even better so I'll be off to JHS again in due course, its only about 5 miles
from my house. I think a setup for around the 40-50 quid mark is worth a whirl first before you start buying new
components or changing your bike.
____________________
Currently enjoying products from Ford, Mazda and Yamaha
Ste wrote: Avatars are fine, it's signatures that need turning off.

[PotatoHead202...]

As others have said, at that weight you WILL need to upgrade the springs if you want the bike - or ANY bike - to work properly. Standard suspension is generally designed to be "safe" for the max payload of the bike but that doesn't mean it will handle well. My VFR's standard stuff was diabolically bad. I fitted a Nitron shock and K Tech internals to the forks and it's been transformed. YSS shock (with a heavy spring as I'm also around 18 stone) plus hyperpro springs and YSS PD valves to my CBF500 and that was also transformed. Anyone who thinks general roadbike suspension is good for heavier riders is talking out of their arse. ANYONE will benefit from a suspension setup/upgrade.
____________________
Honda VFR1200F, Honda CBF500 ABS, CZ125 now CZ175

[stinkwheel]

On my VFR750. Standard spring rate is 7N/mm, I'm running 9N/mm. So 30% stiffer.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[MCN]

[bacon]

On my previous bike, a 2016 MT09, I upgraded the front and rear end at fairly considerable expense. I did the fitting myself so only paid for parts (and a few tools).

Note that I am 75kg in gear with a backpack, barely.
I found the stock shock a bit springy, under damped and over sprung. In contrast I found the front forks soft enough, but when braking they would dive deep. Then they would unload when you pull away, almost like having a pogo stick at both ends.

I upgraded to K tech kit:
IDS20 fork internals and stock springs, given my weight, with some proper damping the springs should be fine.

Razor R rear shock, appeared to be on a standard fitment spring (whatever that was at the time, I don't recall the rating of the spring).

Well I found the whole setup a bit marmite, the fork internals were clearly designed for a track bike, which is a shame given the MT09 is very much a road bike by design. I found the shim stack was far too stiff, if you hit a big bump, it near clattered you off over the bars, it was awful quite frankly. So I reduced the oil level to increase the air gap, hoping it would help, but it didn't. FYI, I used 15.9cst oil in both fork legs, so it was very much on the light/middle end of the scale when it came to viscosity.

The rear shock spring was slightly too stiff to be honest, damping however and ride quality was superb. I just wish JHS had specced a slightly softer spring, I feel like I was given the copy paste solution.

In the end I sold off the fancy K tech parts, went back to stock.

If I ever go for fancy suspension components again, it will be from Maxton. I hear great stories about how they listen to your requirements and setup the parts accordingly with bespoke shim stacks, spring rates and damping settings, rather than the off the shelt approach of Ktech.

[grr666]

[MCN]

[bacon]