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Just passsed Mod 2 - Honda Rebel 1100 or Triumph Speedmaster

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zingdoozer
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PostPosted: 18:55 - 22 Nov 2022    Post subject: Just passsed Mod 2 - Honda Rebel 1100 or Triumph Speedmaster Reply with quote

I've just passed my Mod 2.

I know cruiser's are looked down upon here, but what can I say, I've got poor taste, and would like to stick with them Smile.

I've been riding a Honda Shadow VT125 cruiser for the last couple of years and have been very happy with it as a first bike. Was riding the same motorcyle ten years ago, and took a break from riding (silly me) and bought the same make the second time around.

I'm wavering between the Honda Rebel 1100 (DCT (poor taste again, but have driven automatic cars for years and wouldn't want to go back to geared), forgiving uncruiser like handling, like the black non chrome look, afrika twin (detuned) engine, Honda reliability).

And the Triumph Speedmaster (UK bike, best looking cruiser out there by a country mile, will take care of you if you take care of it (but I'm terrible for taking care of things i.e. regular washing etc, will do the servicings), great engine and handling).

I'm not a speed freak, and generally stick to speed limits, and won't be thinking of taking it on long rides, probably commuting or the very occasional longer 50-100 mile ride at most.

I'd like a solid, reliable, decent looking, one and done bike that rides like a dream, that I can also use for yonks with the minimum of things going wrong.

Not too fussed about insurance, mileage, or cost. Having said that, if the R18 was a few grand cheaper I'd be seriously considering it.

Any advice would be appreciated. Happy to consider other cruiser alternatives.
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Keithy
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PostPosted: 23:07 - 22 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not got a lot of advice to give.

The Rebel is 223Kg

The Triumph is 250Kg

An R18 is 345Kg

As a noob my biggest fear was dropping the bike, the heavier they are, the harder they are to stop if they head for the deck. Cruisers are, apparently, not great when it comes to handling/manoeuvrability.

All that aside, if it’s what you want then go and ride all three. Only way to tell what fits you is to get on it.
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zingdoozer
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PostPosted: 00:09 - 23 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Keithy wrote:
Not got a lot of advice to give.

The Rebel is 223Kg

The Triumph is 250Kg

An R18 is 345Kg

As a noob my biggest fear was dropping the bike, the heavier they are, the harder they are to stop if they head for the deck. Cruisers are, apparently, not great when it comes to handling/manoeuvrability.

All that aside, if it’s what you want then go and ride all three. Only way to tell what fits you is to get on it.


Hah! fair point - that takes the R18 out of the reckoning.

It was the cruiser control or lack of control that's making me learn more towards the Rebel as they're supposed to have non cruiser almost naked bike handling levels.

Thanks for the advice, I'll book a test ride on all three once I do get my license back.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 01:29 - 23 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've ridden an America (which AFAIK is just a fancy Speedmaster) and I've ridden a Rebel 500. (The 1100 is relatively new and I don't know anyone who's got one on these forums.) Some observations...

A real cruiser would be a Harley or maybe an Indian, at least you didn't mention those! But of the two the Speedmaster is obviously the realer cruiser Smile The Speedmaster would be a very basic bike compared to the Rebel but that's not necessarily a bad thing; pure style vs the Rebel's gadgets.

For your usage scenarios either bike would do but long term are you thinking of doing your own maintenance? The Speedmaster is a much, much older design and a lot easier to strip down and get parts. The Rebel is more of a highly curated package you don't need to worry about.

Just down to taste really, do you have any? Wink
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Zen Dog
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PostPosted: 01:48 - 23 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

zingdoozer wrote:
I'm wavering between the Honda Rebel 1100 (DCT (poor taste again, but have driven automatic cars for years and wouldn't want to go back to geared), forgiving uncruiser like handling, like the black non chrome look, afrika twin (detuned) engine, Honda reliability).


Cruisers generally aren't my thing, but I saw the Rebel 1100 at a Honda dealer a little while ago, and I was impressed. It's definitely a cut above the smaller Rebel models in terms of quality. And that Africa Twin engine is well proven. So if you're asking which bike is likely to survive better under "light neglect", the Honda or the Triumph, it's probably the Honda.

But you say the Triumph is the "best looking cruiser out there by a country mile". So you have a choice. Do you want to buy with your head, or your heart? Do you want the one that's most likely to start on a wet cold night when you just want to go home from work? Or the one that makes you smile widest every time you open the garage door? Only you can decide that.
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zingdoozer
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PostPosted: 07:37 - 23 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Easy-X wrote:
I've ridden an America (which AFAIK is just a fancy Speedmaster) and I've ridden a Rebel 500. (The 1100 is relatively new and I don't know anyone who's got one on these forums.) Some observations...

A real cruiser would be a Harley or maybe an Indian, at least you didn't mention those! But of the two the Speedmaster is obviously the realer cruiser Smile The Speedmaster would be a very basic bike compared to the Rebel but that's not necessarily a bad thing; pure style vs the Rebel's gadgets.


I've grown boring as the years have passed, so maybe looks have become more important, but there must be a little more than that surely? From where I'm looking the Speedmaster doesn't have much more than looks going for it, engine performance might be just about even or the Afrika Twin engine winning out because of its proven pedigree.

I lose cool points for liking cruisers, but won't lose any more for going for Harley, then again I might end up with a second hand VRSCDX V-Rod at this price point. Smile


Easy-X wrote:

For your usage scenarios either bike would do but long term are you thinking of doing your own maintenance? The Speedmaster is a much, much older design and a lot easier to strip down and get parts. The Rebel is more of a highly curated package you don't need to worry about.

Just down to taste really, do you have any? Wink



I doubt I'll be doing my own maintenance, but maybe better to leave this to the experts. Saving a few bob doing it myself seems like asking for trouble. Sure, might get the fixing bug, but doubt it. It's not a Royal Enfleld where that's almost a necessity. Smile

Hah! Nicely done with the taste bit! Smile

Taste? Philosophical answer vs funny self deprecating one - Like with everything with everybody, sometimes great taste (especially in friendships), most of the time mediocre, some of the time downright dire.
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zingdoozer
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PostPosted: 07:46 - 23 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zen Dog wrote:
zingdoozer wrote:
I'm wavering between the Honda Rebel 1100 (DCT (poor taste again, but have driven automatic cars for years and wouldn't want to go back to geared), forgiving uncruiser like handling, like the black non chrome look, afrika twin (detuned) engine, Honda reliability).


Cruisers generally aren't my thing, but I saw the Rebel 1100 at a Honda dealer a little while ago, and I was impressed. It's definitely a cut above the smaller Rebel models in terms of quality. And that Africa Twin engine is well proven. So if you're asking which bike is likely to survive better under "light neglect", the Honda or the Triumph, it's probably the Honda.

But you say the Triumph is the "best looking cruiser out there by a country mile". So you have a choice. Do you want to buy with your head, or your heart? Do you want the one that's most likely to start on a wet cold night when you just want to go home from work? Or the one that makes you smile widest every time you open the garage door? Only you can decide that.


You've sussed me out quite well - 'Light neglect' might just be me to a T.

It should be a bit of both head and heart, if I have the choice of all the cruisers out there, and a five figure budget.

The smile widest option seems to be the one that strikes the best chord.

They'll probably both start on a cold night being new. And there's not much difference between 99% and 96% reliability as most issues will be sorted with regular servicing.

Knowing me, what I'll end up doing is ride them and see which one I fall in love with i.e. which one makes the smile the widest.

That's driven most of my decision making all these years, and regretted the ones where I didn't go for the widest smile option.
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha
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PostPosted: 08:10 - 23 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

zingdoozer wrote:
Honda Rebel 1100 (DCT


Keithy wrote:
The Rebel is 223Kg


Nope. The DCT is 233kg.


On a different tack, I wondered if someone at Honda was trolling when they named it the Rebel. "Guys - you know we've got this new cruiser coming out, with the CRF1000 engine in it - like, the most conservative cruiser ever devised, yeah? Well howsabout we call it The Rebel??!

*cue other people in the meeting laughing like Smash martians*

But then I thought about it a bit more, and realised that not only was this some class act trolling, it was trolling the trolling. Meta trolling, in fact. What could be more rebellious than rebelling against the rebel spirit of those Sonny gut bargers, those Sturgis rallying heavy metal muthas - what could be more rebellious than sticking two fingers up to all that rebel yelling rough neckery? Answer: A parallel twin DCT schmuiser. I wished they had actually called it The Schmuiser.

I remember back at the time, there was a rumour that dealers were offering buyers special PVC tassled assless chaps with each bike. Unironically and with a solemn look upon their beard trimmed countenances. I very much doubt the veracity of such tales. And yet....


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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha
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PostPosted: 08:13 - 23 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

zingdoozer wrote:
The smile widest option


Oh yeah - it's definitely that.

https://i.imgur.com/g297Eep.gif


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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 12:38 - 23 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Weight is a bit less of an issue with cruisers with your centre of gravity (sat on the bike) being a bit lower down.

Stock there wouldn't be much difference but if you were to mod the exhaust systems the Triumph would sound much nicer than the Honda. Performance wise they'll be about the same, Triumph will be a touch more torquey.

A thorough test ride of both should make things obvious Smile
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BRUN
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PostPosted: 18:29 - 23 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

whats the ergonomics like, are they similar

i went into a dealers wanting a speed twin, but ive suffered with a bad back for 20+ years so do what i can not to aggravate it, so ended up buying a T120

does the Triumph have the option of an auto, I wasn't aware they did any, if thats a deal breaker ?

without a google, does the speedmaster have a lot of chrome, i think that requires at least some looking after, especially through winter

you will probably know which you want after sitting on or preferably riding both, and looks massively come into it, as already mentioned, which would make you smile more opening the garage
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zingdoozer
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PostPosted: 21:08 - 23 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

trevor saxe-coburg-gotha wrote:



On a different tack, I wondered if someone at Honda was trolling when they named it the Rebel. "Guys - you know we've got this new cruiser coming out, with the CRF1000 engine in it - like, the most conservative cruiser ever devised, yeah? Well howsabout we call it The Rebel??!

*cue other people in the meeting laughing like Smash martians*

But then I thought about it a bit more, and realised that not only was this some class act trolling, it was trolling the trolling. Meta trolling, in fact. What could be more rebellious than rebelling against the rebel spirit of those Sonny gut bargers, those Sturgis rallying heavy metal muthas - what could be more rebellious than sticking two fingers up to all that rebel yelling rough neckery? Answer: A parallel twin DCT schmuiser. I wished they had actually called it The Schmuiser.


The Japanese way of trolling is a big middle finger to the olde ways.

Japanese knives can be pushed to cut vs slicing.
Japanese denim is smooth and soft to the touch unlike regular denim.
Their single malt whiskies are smooth, compared to the rest of the single malt world.

With their take on a cruiser, they're saying here's a different look, advanced gadgetry and an actually decently handling cruiser for a change. Let's also give you a chrome free cruiser so you don't have to be paranoid about the rain, and scramble for replacements down the line.

Sure, the alpha cruiser lads will look down their noses at you, but last laugh counts, and you just might have it with our take on things.
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zingdoozer
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PostPosted: 21:10 - 23 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Easy-X wrote:
Weight is a bit less of an issue with cruisers with your centre of gravity (sat on the bike) being a bit lower down.

Stock there wouldn't be much difference but if you were to mod the exhaust systems the Triumph would sound much nicer than the Honda. Performance wise they'll be about the same, Triumph will be a touch more torquey.

A thorough test ride of both should make things obvious Smile


Just thought of a bog standard ride, but a thorough one makes more sense, and will research what that entails.
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zingdoozer
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PostPosted: 21:11 - 23 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

BRUN wrote:
whats the ergonomics like, are they similar

i went into a dealers wanting a speed twin, but ive suffered with a bad back for 20+ years so do what i can not to aggravate it, so ended up buying a T120

does the Triumph have the option of an auto, I wasn't aware they did any, if thats a deal breaker ?

without a google, does the speedmaster have a lot of chrome, i think that requires at least some looking after, especially through winter

you will probably know which you want after sitting on or preferably riding both, and looks massively come into it, as already mentioned, which would make you smile more opening the garage


No auto on the Triumphs. But not a complete deal breaker. Would depend on the smile quotient. Smile

There's a fair bit of chrome on my VT125 and it's been an eye sore and an arseache tbh.


Last edited by zingdoozer on 21:21 - 23 Nov 2022; edited 1 time in total
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zingdoozer
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PostPosted: 21:19 - 23 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Was also thinking of the Honda Valkyrie, and it's far too big for a first bike and I'm already pushing it jumping from a 125 to 1100.

The american forums caution against it, but here in the UK, I think with the emphasis on good training, and the fact that most riders will outgrow a 5-700cc in a couple to few months, and my riding instructor saying pretty much the same, I thought ton plus should be manageable.

R18 and Valkryie at almost 350kg (and I thought the VT125 looks big and I thought it's 145kg was at least medium sized) still seem like a no go for a first bike though.

Could go for a Nightrod but it screams try hard. And it's a Harley Rolling Eyes

Triumph is local British engineering and looks the ticket, but my research keeps bringing me back to Rebel articles and videos.

Simple solution from the brilliant advice here (thank you all!) is thorough test ride of them all, take my time and biggest smile wins. Smile
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 21:35 - 23 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

zingdoozer wrote:
and the fact that most riders will outgrow a 5-700cc in a couple to few months


Only if you ride a pussy cruiser. Get on a proper 600cc supersport and you'll be riding a fucking 140+ bhp, 160+ mph missile, not a fucking lardy slow bike designed for girls with short legs.
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Zen Dog
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PostPosted: 22:58 - 23 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

zingdoozer wrote:
the fact that most riders will outgrow a 5-700cc in a couple to few months


I haven't outgrown my 750, and I've had it since 2004...

Really, you need to get over the idea that there's a magical CC limit above which it will be too much for a new rider/boring after a couple of months etc. As soon as you get into big bikes, the style of the bike, and the skill/attitude/riding style of the rider is much more relevant. My dad had a 1500cc F6C Valkyrie (great bike btw) and it was a comfy pussycat. By contrast, my 675cc Street Triple was a terrifying missile.

The real fact that you need to consider is that most people will drop their first big bike at least once. It might be on gravel in a layby, or bumping down a kerb, or just wheeling it out of the garage. But it's probably going to happen. I usually recommend people buy something old and tatty as their first big bike for this reason, but you seem to have your heart set on something shiny. So I recommend whatever you buy, you have engine bars and/or crash bungs fitted. Seriously.
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha
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PostPosted: 00:23 - 24 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

zingdoozer wrote:
most riders will outgrow a 5-700cc in a couple to few months


bullsh1t

"most" riders?? An mt07, an er6 or an sv650 will take some proper ragging. If you're scraping the pegs and using all the power frequently, smoothly and exploiting 75% of the handling on a regular basis after two fvcking months I'd have to see it to believe it. Christ there's some bollocks talked in this new bikers' forum.
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zingdoozer
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PostPosted: 00:49 - 24 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

trevor saxe-coburg-gotha wrote:
zingdoozer wrote:
most riders will outgrow a 5-700cc in a couple to few months


bullsh1t

"most" riders?? An mt07, an er6 or an sv650 will take some proper ragging. If you're scraping the pegs and using all the power frequently, smoothly and exploiting 75% of the handling on a regular basis after two fvcking months I'd have to see it to believe it. Christ there's some bollocks talked in this new bikers' forum.


My riding instructor had us train on MT07s, and he said get a bigger bike you'll outgrow this one in a few months.

Maybe a couple of months was a bit rich, but if this statement gets your panties in such a twist, it must be a tumultous life you lead. Wink
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zingdoozer
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PostPosted: 00:52 - 24 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobby the Bastard wrote:
zingdoozer wrote:
and the fact that most riders will outgrow a 5-700cc in a couple to few months


Only if you ride a pussy cruiser. Get on a proper 600cc supersport and you'll be riding a fucking 140+ bhp, 160+ mph missile, not a fucking lardy slow bike designed for girls with short legs.


Fair point. Doubt I'd ever outgrow that.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 01:14 - 24 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

About the only thing that pisses me off about my XSR700 is paying "big bike" road tax on something that only just tips the scales. That being said the MT09/XSR900 would be completely wasted on me given I spend most of my time in and out of the City.

And I wouldn't say either the Rebel or the Speedmaster are particularly large and lardy bikes, quite compact compared to more... American offerings.
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grr666
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PostPosted: 02:19 - 24 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Easy-X wrote:
That being said the MT09/XSR900 would be completely wasted on me given I spend most of my time in and out of the City.

I'd argue to the contrary, I'd not want to go on a proper long ride on an MT09 unless it was the Tracer variant with all
the extra touring kit. The standard bike is just like yours but with hairier armpits and a slightly worse drinking habit.
A nice bike for city riding, good manners if you ride it like that round town, it just goes a bit more Tarzan when you
get out into the sticks. I'd love to ride a modern MT09 just to see how the improvements over the years compare to
my original Mark 1 model. They share a lot of the extra bits and bobs I have on the MTen, IMU and all the modern rider
aids, QS and and improved suspension. My mark 1 had basic ABS, some suspension that cost about 10p to manufacture
from wood and that was it. I'd imagine the newer models are more civilised than the Spacker ever was, just as much
fun but without the constant fear of death. I agree about the road tax, but don't give them any ideas, there's still room for
plenty more higher tiers of that. I'm surprised there isn't already tbh, they are wringing the £££ out of motorists in every other
way they can get away with. To be able to tax a Triumph Rocket 2300cc for the same price as an ER6f commuter bike
is mental really.
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha
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PostPosted: 10:49 - 24 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

zingdoozer wrote:
My riding instructor had us train on MT07s, and he said get a bigger bike you'll outgrow this one in a few months.


Hopefully it's not part of an elaborate ploy to end your life. You haven't annoyed him with Village People-esque antics, have you??

zingdoozer wrote:
Maybe a couple of months was a bit rich, but if this statement gets your panties in such a twist, it must be a tumultous life you lead. Wink


yuck yuck *slaps thigh*
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