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Keithy
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PostPosted: 10:32 - 25 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oddly, I have just finished reading this…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Being_Mortal

It talks about the advancement of medicine in terms of treatments but the inability of clinicians to ‘call it a day’ when the end closes in. People used to just die at home, suffering, cared for by the family if they had one. Now we think the answer is either a nursing home or hospital but that isn’t usually what the person wants.

With regard to ‘assisted’ dying and withholding treatment it’s happening now to some extent. When my partners step-father had pneumonia we were left in no uncertain terms that the consultant wanted us to ‘let things take their course’ rather than intervene further. My Mum was admitted to our local acute hospital and I basically got told off for calling out the Ambulance - ‘all I can do is give give her more antibiotics and there’s no point in me doing that!’ I wouldn’t mind but it was the nursing home that called them out.
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 11:01 - 25 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Then there is pallative care where basically overdoses of painkiller have to be given in order to prevent pain but will hasten death.
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Mysteriass
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PostPosted: 11:46 - 25 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's not just WEF. This is part of Agenda 2030 and been on the cards for years.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=B4gjnZinJz8

It's the same old commie formula : Say that political opponents and dissidents (e.g People who didn't take the state approved clotshot injection / Conservative types) are "mentally ill", then have those troublesome people put into a facility and tortured (experimented upon)... then those people magically disappear all under the friendly auspices of a doctor in a white coat who's just trying to help.

They've done it before and they're doing it again.

One of their favourite tricks is to say that parents are "mentally ill" then send the thug squad round to go get their kids and then sell those kids onto their "big club" buddies, Epstein / Royal family / Saville , etc.

https://rumble.com/v1lo34n-judiciarypolice-stealing-trafficking-children.html

This has all happened before in Soviet Russia when the commies took over their country and now it's happening again worldwide.

It's probably what this war in Ukraine is really all about. Russia trying to keep themselves from being Genocided round 2. Who pushed the vax? Who pushed the war? ... the same commies who killed millions of people in Russia during the holodomor (Which they're also doing to the entire planet right now).

It's Putin's fault ... my ass.
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 11:49 - 25 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you need some more dried frog pills.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 12:58 - 25 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

pinkyfloyd wrote:
I'd rather be put down than be a burden on resources.


Only one step away from "Soyent Green is people!" Actually that might be worth a re-watch, given the topic Thinking

Mysteriass wrote:
Some tinfoil sombrero stuff...


Steady on, old chap. Best to serve up such things a bite at a time than shovel it all at once Wink
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Tierbirdy
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PostPosted: 15:30 - 25 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Absolutely.

As a healthcare professional, I spend a lot of time working closely with people who are on end of life care, and the vast, vast majority their daily existence, I wont call it life because its not living, is lying in bed in pain, doped up to the eyes on painkillers simply waiting for the inevitable end.

You wouldn't make a dog suffer like that.

I've already got my living will, advanced care decisions, and if necessary suicide, all planned out.

Nobby the Bastard wrote:
Then there is pallative care where basically overdoses of painkiller have to be given in order to prevent pain but will hasten death.


Sort of.

So typically palliative patients get given a "just in case" box (also called "anticipatory medications", but just in case sounds nicer for the family) this contains morphine, midazolam & glycopyrronium. May vary depending on the individual patient's needs but thems your three basic ones. Morphine for pain, midaz for anxiety/agitation, and glyco for airway secretions.

These are issued as individual vials to be given as subcut or intramuscular injection as needed, sometimes the family are trained in this, usually its community/hospice nurses or paramedics.

Generally these are only needed/given in the active stages of dying, people think theyre given to speed the process up but generally by the time youve gotten to the stage that you need them, you're circling the drain anyway. If those arent enough to control it, the next step is a syringe driver which gives a constant slow infusion of morphine and midazolam (or similar) that just keeps you pain free and lightly sedated. This is usually given in the last 24-48hrs of life, a common misconception is theyre given to "speed up dying" but its genuinely that theyre knocking on deaths door anyway and its to ensure as good a death as possible, just go to sleep and pass away. Morphine and midaz both have the side effect of respiratory depression, can induce slower/more shallow breathing, but in the doses theyre given at in palliative care its generally not a concern.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 16:40 - 25 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mysteriass wrote:
It's not just WEF. This is part of Agenda 2030 and been on the cards for years.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=B4gjnZinJz8

This is what I was getting at as to where this is coming from Wink

Looks like my apparently ill-informed and arrogant presumptuous assumptions were 100% correct Thinking
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Islander
World Chat Champion



Joined: 05 Aug 2012
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PostPosted: 17:21 - 25 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

M.C wrote:
Mysteriass wrote:
It's not just WEF. This is part of Agenda 2030 and been on the cards for years.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=B4gjnZinJz8

This is what I was getting at as to where this is coming from Wink

Looks like my apparently ill-informed and arrogant presumptuous assumptions were 100% correct Thinking


Lauren Southern.

Another alt right ultra religious fruitloop. Praise the lord and pass the tinfoil Laughing
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Islander
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PostPosted: 17:34 - 25 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tierbirdy wrote:
Absolutely.

As a healthcare professional, I spend a lot of time working closely with people who are on end of life care, and the vast, vast majority their daily existence, I wont call it life because its not living, is lying in bed in pain, doped up to the eyes on painkillers simply waiting for the inevitable end.

You wouldn't make a dog suffer like that.

I've already got my living will, advanced care decisions, and if necessary suicide, all planned out.

Nobby the Bastard wrote:
Then there is pallative care where basically overdoses of painkiller have to be given in order to prevent pain but will hasten death.


Sort of.

So typically palliative patients get given a "just in case" box (also called "anticipatory medications", but just in case sounds nicer for the family) this contains morphine, midazolam & glycopyrronium. May vary depending on the individual patient's needs but thems your three basic ones. Morphine for pain, midaz for anxiety/agitation, and glyco for airway secretions.

These are issued as individual vials to be given as subcut or intramuscular injection as needed, sometimes the family are trained in this, usually its community/hospice nurses or paramedics.

Generally these are only needed/given in the active stages of dying, people think theyre given to speed the process up but generally by the time youve gotten to the stage that you need them, you're circling the drain anyway. If those arent enough to control it, the next step is a syringe driver which gives a constant slow infusion of morphine and midazolam (or similar) that just keeps you pain free and lightly sedated. This is usually given in the last 24-48hrs of life, a common misconception is theyre given to "speed up dying" but its genuinely that theyre knocking on deaths door anyway and its to ensure as good a death as possible, just go to sleep and pass away. Morphine and midaz both have the side effect of respiratory depression, can induce slower/more shallow breathing, but in the doses theyre given at in palliative care its generally not a concern.


This meshes very much with my own experience of care at the end of my mother's life. Our GP, a very thoughtful and compassionate doctor, provided the care home with a combination locked "end of life" case which contained, among other things, diamorphine, hyoscine something or other and midazolam for exactly the purposes described. The community nurses had access to the combination for treatment. He explained why and when they were used and was clear that she was coming to the end of her life. In any event she was given IM diamorphine and that was all. She died peacefully and comfortably in her sleep. I had already agreed DNR with him (I had lasting power of attorney).

She wasn't in any pain that I knew of so this was a good end of life plan for her. If she'd been suffering in any way and assisted death was available and recommended by my GP, I wouldn't have hesitated at all.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 17:41 - 25 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

The religious right might be "having a melty" on this topic but I've heard it mentioned in less rabid, more neutral "what do we think of this?" terms by various commentators. The theory's all very nice but when you're up against the cold, hard face of it...

My wife's aunt had cancer and the surgeons were all very optimistic they could just chop a few bits out like pruning a dead branch from a hedge but by the time they'd finished she was minus her entire digestive system. I'd not previously considered such things to be optional to "live." And then you're onto "defining living?" Sad
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M.C
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PostPosted: 18:13 - 25 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Islander wrote:
Lauren Southern.

Another alt right ultra religious fruitloop. Praise the lord and pass the tinfoil Laughing

Rogerborg had a total boner for her. I thought she was fake as hell then she was exposed as a total grifter.

Easy-X wrote:
The religious right might be "having a melty" on this topic but I've heard it mentioned in less rabid, more neutral "what do we think of this?" terms by various commentators.

Who probably follow the same people Wink Especially within that sphere the origin is of upmost importance.

My main issue is why the need for subterfuge.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 18:17 - 25 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Easy-X wrote:
The religious right


M.C thinks that's me Laughing
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M.C
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PostPosted: 20:18 - 25 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

chickenstrip wrote:
Easy-X wrote:
The religious right


M.C thinks that's me Laughing

Well you repeat their talking points, and also react the same way they do when someone says something critical of Christianity (angrily...).

We've talked before about conditioning and indoctrination but there's definitely an element of duplicity as well.

The fact the person above dropped sources straight away, and you wouldn't even when asked by another user is telling.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 03:39 - 26 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Re-watched Soylent Green (1973, Charlton Heston) and it's amazing how many details you can forget about a film. Amazing that almost the whole film is based off of one scene from Harrison's original novel; it's like they had actual script writers in the olden days Wink

In the opening we learn it's 2022 Shocked and the population of the US is 344 million with almost 40 million just in NYC. (Not bad considering reality is at least 330 million with over 20 million in New York.) The rich live like kings and there's a massive homeless problem. Police are overworked and murders regularly go unsolved... prescient guy, this Harry Smile

Anyway, that scene. TBH there's worse ways to go and it is the only facility the city lavishes staff and energy on which ironically shows there's just one tiny shred of decency left. Not enough given the final conclusion Sad
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 21:59 - 12 Dec 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Canadian Update (courtesy of TimCast)

1) Euthanasia is the leading cause of death @ 3%
2) The government are currently debating whether to expand the scheme to children.

If this were coupled with abortions up to and beyond birth it seems the State would like to snuff you out on a whim from conception onwards Thinking
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M.C
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PostPosted: 23:05 - 12 Dec 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Easy-X wrote:
Canadian Update (courtesy of TimCast)

1) Euthanasia is the leading cause of death @ 3%
2) The government are currently debating whether to expand the scheme to children.

If this were coupled with abortions up to and beyond birth it seems the State would like to snuff you out on a whim from conception onwards Thinking

I'm going to be the dunce kids in class and ask how can it be a leading cause if it's 3% Confused

'MAID provisions [accounted] for 3.3% of all deaths in Canada':

- Cancer (65.6%) is the most commonly cited underlying medical condition
- This is followed by cardiovascular conditions (18.7%), chronic respiratory conditions (12.4%), and neurological conditions (12.4%)
- The majority of MAID recipients (80.7%) received palliative care... of the MAID recipients who did not receive palliative care, 88.0% had access to these services if they required them
- The average age at the time MAID was provided in 2021 was 76.3 years

Source: https://www.canada.ca/en/health-canada/services/medical-assistance-dying/annual-report-2021.html (with lots of graphs and shit... or watch Tim Pool talking about genocide).
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 00:16 - 13 Dec 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mmm, that's what the Baldy Man is putting about at the moment.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 02:21 - 13 Dec 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Easy-X wrote:
Mmm, that's what the Baldy Man is putting about at the moment.

He's a grifter and unfortunately most of his audience won't look into things for themselves.
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 09:00 - 13 Dec 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Easy-X wrote:


If this were coupled with abortions up to and beyond birth


Have you run out of dried frog pills again?
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 09:53 - 13 Dec 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

It always amazed me how much trust people have that the services regulating and monitoring a system of assisted dying work properly. How many social and justice services scandals do you need to see reported before you give up on the delusion this country has the capacity to properly manage such things?
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M.C
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PostPosted: 14:03 - 13 Dec 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ribenapigeon wrote:
It always amazed me how much trust people have that the services regulating and monitoring a system of assisted dying work properly.

I don't, there's just a lot of people who would rather not spend their final days suffering. The problem is this debate is full of disingenuous dick heads and outright lies as this thread has highlighted.

Ribenapigeon wrote:
How many social and justice services scandals do you need to see reported before you give up on the delusion this country has the capacity to properly manage such things?

I agree it's full of low quality people Very Happy
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 14:13 - 13 Dec 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

M.C wrote:

I agree it's full of low quality people Very Happy


Its a mix of poor personnel and bad organisation with expensively administered and highly politicised funding arrangements, with an ignorant public represented by disinterested politicians. The workforce is a mixed bag of people incapable or unwilling to act to change things for the better as well. I thought about starting a thread on the issue but thought what's the point nobody gives a s#1t until either they or a family member needs services.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 14:22 - 13 Dec 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ribenapigeon wrote:
M.C wrote:

I agree it's full of low quality people Very Happy


Its a mix of poor personnel and bad organisation with expensively administered and highly politicised funding arrangements, with an ignorant public represented by disinterested politicians. The workforce is a mixed bag of people incapable or unwilling to act to change things for the better as well. I thought about starting a thread on the issue but thought what's the point nobody gives a s#1t until either they or a family member needs services.

I think there's a general attitude that services are going to be shit in this country, but if by your own admission people on the inside aren't willing to do anything, I don't know what people on the outside are meant to do.
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 15:28 - 13 Dec 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

M.C wrote:

I think there's a general attitude that services are going to be shit in this country, but if by your own admission people on the inside aren't willing to do anything, I don't know what people on the outside are meant to do.


Its not for want of trying but people burn out. I've done my bit trying to change things but it's a punishing experience. Like I said I thought of starting a thread about it but whats the point. People care more about who wins TV Reality game shows.
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