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Musical instrumends 1/4

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WD Forte
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PostPosted: 17:41 - 26 Nov 2022    Post subject: Musical instrumends 1/4 Reply with quote

Not sure if this belongs in show and tell or random banter
so will stick it here

Over the last year or so I have been trying my hand at some DIY Luthery
as I've collected a mandolin and two guitars from freecycle/freegle
and all broken in various ways.
While I'll always have a go at fixing anything, I've never been much
of a hand at fine woodworking skills as I'm somewhat impatient and clumsy at times
but when somethings that fecked up I figured there little to lose in having a go.

1/4

The mandolin started it off, I saw it on Freegle and thought it would be an interesting challenge.
Here it is as it arrived, the guy said he'd had it for years and mostly kept it in the box and when he went to take it out one day, found it like this
so wrapped the strings around the head stock and put it back in.
It's a Suzuki MF-300 circa 1980, not a valuable instrument so not a loss to the world if I balls it up.

https://imgur.com/UYORkcf.jpg

https://imgur.com/2sXujcZ.jpg

At the break area you can see the truss rod cut out has left very little actual wood at the neck.

https://imgur.com/8Eoqn3e.jpg

I sweated the fretboard off, it was undamaged luckily

https://imgur.com/0s7E4iy.jpg


Next I cleaned up and glued the headstock back on the neck.
It was sound-ish joint but I didn't trust it enough to take the tension of strings
and began to consider options.

https://imgur.com/uLcoYYX.jpg

After some research on mandos and truss rods I decided to omit the truss rod and decided to insert a hardwood 'spoon' in the truss rod cavity.
After a plywood one broke so easily I found some Beech that was very strong
I couldn't even bend it let alone break it.
It took a while to make the supports to hold the mando in the mini mill and level it up.
I made the spoon first then cut out its channel undersize and crept up to the final size for a nice snug fit before glueing it in.

I always take lotsa pics on any project but will try and keep it concise
so this pic shows the initial process where I make and insert the spoon and level it, refit the fretboard and add a wee bit of embellishment to the head after cutting the silly bit off the top.

https://imgur.com/LkicOrt.jpg
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Islander
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PostPosted: 18:26 - 26 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice job!

Beech is a good choice for that job. That should hold the neck together nicely and keep it true. I'd have been tempted to sculpt the top of the head rather that leave it straight but then it'd be difficult to find something that matched that body shape. Spiky little fucker, isn't it?
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WD Forte
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PostPosted: 18:36 - 26 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, I get it back together end decide I really don't like the sunburst effect at all and rub it down to bare wood and spray laquer on it.
Pics flatter of course but I prefer it to the original

https://imgur.com/N4fnqtA.jpg


https://imgur.com/1oRxVJQ.jpg

I restrung it with just 4 strings to test the action and intonation
and its ok but not great
To me that is, I have no idea what a good mandolin should feel like
but I realise the fret board has worn frets and isn't as flat as it should be.
Also the nut action is too low and I'm not keen on that pick guard

https://imgur.com/cUym7eH.jpg[/img]
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Islander
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PostPosted: 18:46 - 26 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's not that hard to level and recrown frets, - fret rocker. levelling beam and crowning file are the only tools needed. Nut blanks are cheap and easy to source too.

That wood has lovely flaming by the way - I wonder why they didn't use it for the top? Smile

ETA:

If the nut just has its slots cut too deep then baking soda and superglue are your friends. Thumbs Up
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WD Forte
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PostPosted: 19:18 - 26 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Back t' bloody mill.
I removed the strings and frets then cut off the sticky outy bit over the sound hole
cos my big fingers struggle to fret the lower frets so there's no way
I'm going to go and play up there.
That's just showing off that is.

https://imgur.com/RJLbVVM.jpg

Building the gantrys to setup and hold the thing flat for skimming took longer than the actual skimming.
When it was in place and level I used hot glue to build impromptu supports
before removing the gantrys which happily worked surprisingly well.

https://imgur.com/iXKK5qp.jpg

https://imgur.com/1NT6gPx.jpg


I used a white board marker to indicate how it was cutting and where and only
had to make some small adjustments before skimming about 1.35mm in small increments to get a consistently level fretboard.
To be honest I think the lumpiness was due to my poor prep
and inattention prior to re glueing the fret board.

https://imgur.com/TwmW6ke.jpg

I didnt obliterate any of the fret slots so could use them as guides when refretting it with guitar frets.
The nut is a skinny little thing, I'd have gone radio rentals trying to do that
by hand.

https://imgur.com/g4OhuYT.jpg

https://imgur.com/HsNgZf7.jpg

Refretted, fret crowned and polished, new nut, modded the bridge then strung up with 4 courses of strings
for action and intonation setup.

https://imgur.com/sm63WcJ.jpg]
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 19:38 - 26 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not really surprised by the "I found it like that!" given the 8 steel strings.
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WD Forte
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PostPosted: 19:48 - 26 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did this work earlier this year and so far its been fine
there is a small amount of neck relief which hasn't increased
so the beech insert seems to be doing its job well I'd say.

The only snag is I cant play it very well despite putting in nearly an hour, a solid hour! of practise.
A glance inside tell me why
Of course! it's Japanese innit?
How the feck am I supposed to get a decent tune out of an instrument with Japanese notes on it?
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 21:42 - 26 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

The tuning doesn't help. You can go from guitar to ukulele dead easy but mandolin is more like violin tuning.
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Islander
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PostPosted: 23:29 - 26 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Easy-X wrote:
The tuning doesn't help. You can go from guitar to ukulele dead easy but mandolin is more like violin tuning.


It's exactly the same as violin tuning. Smile

G D A E

Or you could think of it as an upside down bass guitar tuned up a bit...
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Islander
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PostPosted: 23:37 - 26 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Easy-X wrote:
Not really surprised by the "I found it like that!" given the 8 steel strings.


It's probably down to a weakness in that particular piece of wood and the truss rod access wouldn't have helped.. Steel strung mandolins are common - that's the first one I've seen break like that. Smile

Having said that, a volute or a scarf joint wouldn't be a bad idea to add strength.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 02:38 - 27 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Islander wrote:
Easy-X wrote:
Not really surprised by the "I found it like that!" given the 8 steel strings.


It's probably down to a weakness in that particular piece of wood and the truss rod access wouldn't have helped.. Steel strung mandolins are common - that's the first one I've seen break like that. Smile

Having said that, a volute or a scarf joint wouldn't be a bad idea to add strength.


I'm a bit hazy on the topic but would you store a mandolin (for years) with the strings slackened? I'm pretty sure you don't with guitars Thinking
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 11:39 - 27 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

What adhesive do you use there? I'm constantly amazed how strong some are. My canoe paddle is a laminate of sepale and boxwood laths glued together flat-to-flat with polyurethane adhesive and the forces that is subjected to are enormous. The shaft is 3 strips planed down to a 1 1/4" round. I wouldn't be able to snap it with hand pressure alone, a big running draw is perfectly capable of ripping it out of my hands.
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Islander
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PostPosted: 12:29 - 27 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Easy-X wrote:
Islander wrote:


It's probably down to a weakness in that particular piece of wood and the truss rod access wouldn't have helped.. Steel strung mandolins are common - that's the first one I've seen break like that. Smile

Having said that, a volute or a scarf joint wouldn't be a bad idea to add strength.


I'm a bit hazy on the topic but would you store a mandolin (for years) with the strings slackened? I'm pretty sure you don't with guitars Thinking


You really shouldn't need to. I've never kept any of my instruments (the stringed ones obviously Laughing ) with slackened strings. I keep them stringed and tensioned ready to play Smile If the instrument is well designed and built it'll have no problems.

Some instruments are badly designed - the Gibson SG is an example of that. Neck/head breaks are common on those for all the money they cost. Carving a volute into the neck would have all but eliminated that issue. The Les Paul suffers the same but to a lesser degreee.
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Islander
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PostPosted: 12:44 - 27 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

stinkwheel wrote:
What adhesive do you use there? I'm constantly amazed how strong some are. My canoe paddle is a laminate of sepale and boxwood laths glued together flat-to-flat with polyurethane adhesive and the forces that is subjected to are enormous. The shaft is 3 strips planed down to a 1 1/4" round. I wouldn't be able to snap it with hand pressure alone, a big running draw is perfectly capable of ripping it out of my hands.


Modern wood glues are immensely strong, you'll break the wood either side of the join before you split the join itself Smile
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 15:06 - 27 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Islander wrote:
Some instruments are badly designed - the Gibson SG is an example of that. Neck/head breaks are common on those for all the money they cost. Carving a volute into the neck would have all but eliminated that issue. The Les Paul suffers the same but to a lesser degreee.


Yes and in case anyone's wondering what we're talking about this is the classic:

https://www.manchesterguitartech.co.uk/wp3/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Nasty-Gibson-Les-Paul-headstock-break.jpg

A nice volute would look something like this:

https://travelingguitarist.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/ESP-Eclipse-II-Volute-1024x522.jpg

Basically more wood in the weakest spot.
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WD Forte
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PostPosted: 17:36 - 27 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Musical instrumends 2/4

Whilst fixing up the mando I got hold of a Stretton Payne jumbo
with a broken headstock
Another Chinese made guitar about £100 new
I've had to fix this sort of break before on my old Epiphone(see M I 4/4)
so I used the same glue and pin method
Not a pretty repair but its strong
I've seen experts just use glue on much better and very expensive guitars
but I cant help going all belt and braces with beech dowels even it it is ugly af.
[https://imgur.com/Pfl7pTK.jpg

https://imgur.com/gq4vF4N.jpg
I didn't like the all black look and following a cunning plan sanded down the top to reveal the beauty of the bookmarked solid spruce soundboard.
(Solid spruce eh? yeah, sure, right, solid spruce, nice.)

Course it's feckin plywood innit? what was I thinking?
While removing the paint I sanded through the micron thick finish layer to the cross grain of the filler wood in places and got a nice skin disease effect going.
It just got worse after that as I tried various stains shellac, varnish and shit
and it got worse and messier
Eventually I spat me dummy and threw glitter on it, laquered over it and gave it my own bespoke label.
I gave it away on the condition we never speak of it ever again.
Evah!

https://imgur.com/XLbEiak.jpg

I deleted most of the pics as it was too painful to look at.
In its defence, it did play quite well for a cheap guitar and wouldn't
frustrate a beginner trying to get nice noises out of it.
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Islander
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PostPosted: 18:36 - 27 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

A glue and clamp would probably have sorted that but I get why the pins Smile

That's an erm... Interesting finish Laughing

I have an old Johnson 12 string Chinese jobby that I really must get around to sorting out - it's got an action that could slice through anything and the binding is failing. It was cheap as chips though.
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WD Forte
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PostPosted: 18:44 - 27 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Musical Instrumends 3/4

Another freebie with a problem I've never tried to do before.
A Squier (by Fender) acoustic with a bellying soundboard and lifting bridge.
Chinese made with a composite soundboard, no glitter this time I promise!
Another £100-ish guitar.

https://imgur.com/K0OaLmW.jpg
https://imgur.com/8v2k9j2.jpg

I watched experts on youtube doing this kind of repair to get an idea of the processes involved and kinda followed them.

I unstrung it, took out the bridge pins and had a look around it and ran a sharp blade around the perimiter of the bridge to outline the covered area
before gently warming it to soften the glue and carefully lifting the bridge off.

I outlined the area I saw glue in and they didn't exactly go mad with it did they?
and conformation if any were needed it's composite top.

https://imgur.com/O8Sx0Fl.jpg

I put a torch inside so I could trace the bracing with a white board marker

https://imgur.com/076dlAu.jpg

them made some pads for when I would clamp the soundboard to try and flatten it

https://imgur.com/UwijQP3.jpg

Then I had to knock up some deep clamps from ply, a job in itself.
I used my kettle with the lid open to warm and slightly dampen the soundboard
prior to clamping it up for a couple of days.
I got pretty much all the bellying out and the soundboard flat after this

https://imgur.com/glTHAcN.jpg

Incidentally I let a guy down at the mens shed use them for a similar job on his old guitar.
https://imgur.com/1HvXZJF.jpg

The bridge was slightly rocky and needed sanding to a flat surface
but even so, I wasn't happy glueing it to what was in effect a thin veneer
so cunning plans needed.

I pocketed out some holes and recesses on the bridge to use brass hollow screw
type things to give mechanical support.
I dont know what they're called, tube screws? hollow bolts?
it was two I found in cupboard at mens shed, not the ones in the pic they're from google images

https://imgur.com/qkkdBmn.jpg

I put masking tape on the top and refitted the bridge with all the pins in
to locate it then drilled out the screws holes and weeded out the glueing area then sanded out any laquer and shit off to get a good keying area.
https://imgur.com/1LYpq0X.jpg

I decided to use JB weld original not wood glue to stick the bridge on and
fitted the screws at same time then left it overnight.

The masking tape made it easy to clean up and I drilled out the pinholes
with a 4.5mm drill where I had some JB weld squeeze out
A small rat tailed file was used as final touch.
https://imgur.com/hknKp4A.jpg

I made a new nut and saddle with unbleached bone just for the experience
and strung it up for the setup process which went well
( that means I didn't fuck it up which is always a relief)

https://imgur.com/Kr3LsiB.jpg

Considering it's a budget guitar I found it had good tone and was nice to play and others who had go on it were quite impressed too.

My son suggested I fill or paint the screw recesses and I had to agree but didn't bother as I was on to another project and the neighbour who bought it for £30 was happy as larry with it as it was ( and still is)
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Islander
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PostPosted: 18:53 - 27 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's an ingenious repair! I suspect the usual luthier approach would be to make and glue a hardwood bridge plate under the top of the guitar to reinforce it - fiddly and awkward to say the least. I love the clamping solution. Thumbs Up
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WD Forte
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PostPosted: 19:06 - 27 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks
It was an interesting foray into guitar repair and having
non valuable freebies took all the stress out of it.
I learnt enough to give me the confidence to renovate my old
Epiphone which will be chapter 4 of this trilogy.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 23:28 - 27 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

WD Forte wrote:

I pocketed out some holes and recesses on the bridge to use brass hollow screw
type things to give mechanical support.
I dont know what they're called, tube screws? hollow bolts?


Sex bolts.

No. Really.
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WD Forte
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PostPosted: 00:36 - 28 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sex bolts?
( snigger)
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WD Forte
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PostPosted: 00:41 - 28 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Musical instrumends 4/4

The final part of this trilogy
THERE WAS NO GLITTER GUITAR OK?

Trilogy OK?

Finally I get around to tarting up my old Epiphone PR350-S.
Circa 1990, well used and apart from a broken neck that was fixed in 2012
not really had that much tlc.

Now that I was paying close attention to it, I saw that apart from the head which was really a cosmetic, issue there were a few jobs that could improve it.

The head repair, glue and dowel, crude but effective and 10 years on still sound
The front face bugged me more than the back.
https://imgur.com/L46cQsX.jpg

I stuck the flattest part of it to some ply and eventually managed to get it level with the bed of the mini mill where I skimmed it to a consistent level and wooden surface.

https://imgur.com/UmrtQNl.jpg

https://imgur.com/io3YDkg.jpg

I bought a veneer sample pack and selected a peice as close to the colour of the
neck as I could
Dont ask what sort of wood, its all light or dark stuff to me.
Anyway, I spread the glue as evenly as I could on both surfaces sandwiched it in two ply pads and clamped the feck out of it for a day.
I clamped one pad to the front for drilling the 10mm machine head holes to prevent tear out, then trimmed the outline with scissors and did a final trim with sandpaper around the contour.
this is pre final contour sanding

https://imgur.com/LTuesF0.jpg

after final sanding then light stain and laquer I refitted the newly cleand an polished machine heads and rested the new bone nut and truss rod cover on it
to get an idea what it would look like.
the truss rod cover was scratched and the decal was fading so decide to change it slightly by rubbing down smooth and carving Gibson into it.

https://imgur.com/8D4EXHM.jpg

The back didn't bother me that much as long as it was smooth to the touch
and I doubted I could ever disguise the fact it had been repaired
so gave it minimal attention.

https://imgur.com/m0hMUER.jpg%20

The fretboard was minging so when I saw an expert on youtube scraping one back I thought "Gizza job, I can do that" and copied him
(Just realised I actually did this before the head stock.)
Here I'm at the 4th fret and there's a deep notch at 5 which I left alone
I managed to get rid of most of the wear on the frets with a crown and polish job
as I was reluctant to start ripping frets out of it unless I really needed to.

https://imgur.com/1ySBc9Y.jpg

the saddle was looking very second hand so well in need of renewal

https://imgur.com/pzHhJEC.jpg

So, after the head tart up, fret board service, new nut and saddle, new strings. action etc setup. I'm almost done.
I had a peice of 1.2mm alloy door push plate so made an Epiphone badge
on which I carved the name, filled it with black resin and stuck it on.

https://imgur.com/lMTWgXb.jpg

https://imgur.com/G7lYYkh.jpg

and added new brass bridge pins for bling

https://imgur.com/dNlXjk3.jpg
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MCN
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PostPosted: 04:44 - 28 Nov 2022    Post subject: Re: Musical instrumends 1/4 Reply with quote

WD Forte wrote:
Not sure if this belongs in show and tell or random banter
so will stick it here

Over the last year or so I have been trying my hand at some DIY Luthery
as I've collected a mandolin and two guitars from freecycle/freegle
and all broken in various ways.
While I'll always have a go at fixing anything, I've never been much
of a hand at fine woodworking skills as I'm somewhat impatient and clumsy at times
but when somethings that fecked up I figured there little to lose in having a go.

1/4

The mandolin started it off, I saw it on Freegle and thought it would be an interesting challenge.
Here it is as it arrived, the guy said he'd had it for years and mostly kept it in the box and when he went to take it out one day, found it like this
so wrapped the strings around the head stock and put it back in.
It's a Suzuki MF-300 circa 1980, not a valuable instrument so not a loss to the world if I balls it up.

https://imgur.com/UYORkcf.jpg

https://imgur.com/2sXujcZ.jpg

At the break area you can see the truss rod cut out has left very little actual wood at the neck.

https://imgur.com/8Eoqn3e.jpg

I sweated the fretboard off, it was undamaged luckily

https://imgur.com/0s7E4iy.jpg


Next I cleaned up and glued the headstock back on the neck.
It was sound-ish joint but I didn't trust it enough to take the tension of strings
and began to consider options.

https://imgur.com/uLcoYYX.jpg

After some research on mandos and truss rods I decided to omit the truss rod and decided to insert a hardwood 'spoon' in the truss rod cavity.
After a plywood one broke so easily I found some Beech that was very strong
I couldn't even bend it let alone break it.
It took a while to make the supports to hold the mando in the mini mill and level it up.
I made the spoon first then cut out its channel undersize and crept up to the final size for a nice snug fit before glueing it in.

I always take lotsa pics on any project but will try and keep it concise
so this pic shows the initial process where I make and insert the spoon and level it, refit the fretboard and add a wee bit of embellishment to the head after cutting the silly bit off the top.

https://imgur.com/LkicOrt.jpg


Strings are slack and the frame is bent.

And looks liked you have some Power Band issues too.
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Islander
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PostPosted: 14:28 - 28 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

But... but... GLITTER! Laughing
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