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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 14:11 - 17 Dec 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

hellkat wrote:
*wibble*


Pull yourself together woman, and get that job done, now!
And don't you dare waste anything!

Laughing
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 14:27 - 17 Dec 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

chickenstrip wrote:
Nobby the Bastard wrote:
Military discipline is for, guess what, the military.


You say that because you're scared of a little discipline I guess.
Tell me about military discipline Nobby. What do you think it means?


I'm not scared of it as it doesn't apply to civilians.
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hellkat
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PostPosted: 14:52 - 17 Dec 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just a hot flush, I'm sure ... Shifty
I am adequately provided for, thank you v.much Laughing
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 14:56 - 17 Dec 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobby the Bastard wrote:


I'm not scared of it as it doesn't apply to civilians.


I think when services are so deep in trouble as is the NHS, it would be a very worthwhile standard to impose.
But I'm also waiting for you to tell me a) what is the amazing socialist solution to the NHS's problems, and now b) what is your idea of military discipline, what do you think it means?
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 16:53 - 17 Dec 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Military discipline I suppose you mean is the 'crack on and get the job done' approach that people familiar with the military experience.

This is fine in a world where money is no object like whilst warfighting, emergency aid missions, peace keeping.

It's a bit shit when you need a bit of value for money.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 17:32 - 17 Dec 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobby the Bastard wrote:
Military discipline I suppose you mean is the 'crack on and get the job done' approach that people familiar with the military experience.


What about working within high standards, and minimising wastage of both materials and effort, and being held to account for your actions, rewarded when deserving of it? Wink

Quote:
This is fine in a world where money is no object like whilst warfighting, emergency aid missions, peace keeping.

It's a bit shit when you need a bit of value for money.


You actually think that the military can just go ahead and waste resources like there was no end to them? In peace or in war? Well, I suppose it's a good thing in some ways that you can air such views Laughing

So what is the socialist fix for the woes of the NHS? Money has been thrown at it no end, and still it's a disaster. Whose money would you like to waste on it next? Not yours, presumably?
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 17:38 - 17 Dec 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Minimising waste?

Like the 'water tank' that turned out to be the same size and costruction as a swimming pool that was found at one barracks?
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 18:02 - 17 Dec 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobby the Bastard wrote:
Minimising waste?

Like the 'water tank' that turned out to be the same size and costruction as a swimming pool that was found at one barracks?


Sounds like it ruined the entire UK economy Laughing

What is the socialist fix for the NHS?
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 18:10 - 17 Dec 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

For starters, stop using Pfi to build hospitals. It was probably one of the worst ideas to come out of the thatcher/major years and its a real shame that Blair (tory lite rather than socialist) grabbed it and ran with it.

Ideally fi d out why we are paying a fucking extortionate amount to agency staff and locums rather than keeping permanent staff at a more reasonable rate.

Finally stop giving multi million pounds ppe contracts to the landlord of the health ministers local pub.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 18:20 - 17 Dec 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobby the Bastard wrote:
For starters, stop using Pfi to build hospitals. It was probably one of the worst ideas to come out of the thatcher/major years and its a real shame that Blair (tory lite rather than socialist) grabbed it and ran with it.

Ideally fi d out why we are paying a fucking extortionate amount to agency staff and locums rather than keeping permanent staff at a more reasonable rate.

Finally stop giving multi million pounds ppe contracts to the landlord of the health ministers local pub.


Do you think the Labour Party in its current guise will fix it all?
Do you think there is anyone in the socialist camp with the strength of character and ability to fix it?
Personally, I think I'll be giving ReformUK a try. Can't be any worse than the rest of 'em, and sound, at least, eminently more sensible to me. Both Tory and Labour are complete wastes of space as far as I can see. No tribal politics here Nobby! Laughing
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 18:26 - 17 Dec 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

ReformUK are basically the really racist tory.


To be honest thr tory party and the Labour Party both seem in thrawl to the tax payers alliance and seem too scared to actually fund manpower properly and end up paying private companies to provide the same service but with them making a profit on top and vat then paid on top of that.

That's where most of the money is wasted.
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Last edited by Nobby the Bastard on 18:34 - 17 Dec 2022; edited 1 time in total
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 18:32 - 17 Dec 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobby the Bastard wrote:
ReformUK are basically the really racist tory.


And there was me thinking that lefties can't do comedy Laughing
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to v or not to v
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PostPosted: 18:55 - 17 Dec 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobby the Bastard wrote:
ReformUK are basically the really racist tory.

ill vote for that Thumbs Up
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 19:04 - 17 Dec 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

So do you have anything to suggest that is actually useful and real world rather than something nebulous like 'military discipline or 'scrap the nhs'?
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to v or not to v
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PostPosted: 19:11 - 17 Dec 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobby the Bastard wrote:
So do you have anything to suggest that is actually useful and real world rather than something nebulous like 'military discipline or 'scrap the nhs'?


an NHS worker i know, works two 14 hour shifts, one on Saturday, one on Sunday.

for this, they get paid for 40 hours, due to overtime rates.

that to me seems like a ridiculous waste of money.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 19:12 - 17 Dec 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobby the Bastard wrote:
So do you have anything to suggest that is actually useful and real world rather than something nebulous like 'military discipline or 'scrap the nhs'?


chickenstrip wrote:
What about working within high standards, and minimising wastage of both materials and effort, and being held to account for your actions, rewarded when deserving of it? Wink


It isn't a money problem. It is a problem of working practices, organisation and work ethic, as is usually the case with leftist ideas and implementation.

And btw, since it is you looney lefties who introduced CRT into UK culture and institutions, you do understand that you are racist and there is nothing you can do about it? Just because of your skin colour. So why should I listen to the accusations of racism from a racist? They're right what they say: the woke eats itself Laughing
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 19:25 - 17 Dec 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

2 14 hour shifts on a weekend? That's hardly normal working week for most industries.

In 30 odd years working in the civil service the only time I've ever heard about crt is in American politics and people complaining about crt in public service.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 19:28 - 17 Dec 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobby the Bastard wrote:


In 30 odd years working in the civil service


Technically... Laughing
It's an example of how the left like to try to manipulate language Laughing
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 19:53 - 17 Dec 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

For someone who according to you doesn't work it's amazing how many projects that im involved with that other people on this forum post links to.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 19:59 - 17 Dec 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobby the Bastard wrote:
For someone who according to you doesn't work it's amazing how many projects that im involved with that other people on this forum post links to.


So that's why nothing in this country works anymore Laughing
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 20:04 - 17 Dec 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, if the interview on radio 4 the other day is to be believed, private hospitals (Spire in this case) are happily churning out hip replacements for the NHS at the standard NHS tarriff, offering the same level of service as they provide their paying customers and still making money doing it. In a calm, controlled and workmanlike fashion while paying their staff a good wage and maintaining high levels of customer satisfaction.

Which suggests to me that there are a whole lot of elective procedures the NHS are doing themselves ineficiently that may be better being farmed out to the private sector
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 20:26 - 17 Dec 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

So is the NHS tariff the amount the NHS is prepared to pay or is it the same amount that it costs the NHS to do it in house.

Do the private hospitals have the icu in house when they fuck up or do they rely on the NHS to fix it?
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 20:55 - 17 Dec 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobby the Bastard wrote:
So is the NHS tariff the amount the NHS is prepared to pay or is it the same amount that it costs the NHS to do it in house.


My understanding from the interview is that the NHS has an amount of money a hip replacement costs and this is what they pay.


Quote:
Do the private hospitals have the icu in house when they fuck up or do they rely on the NHS to fix it?


I was discussing this with my wife, and no, I don't think they do have an ICU. And yes, if there are complications they can't deal with, they would transferr the patient to an NHS centre. But equally, why shouldn't they? Especially in this circumstance. They are an orthopaedic hospital providing elective orthopaedic care. If one of their cases turns into a critical care case, they should be transferred to a specialist critical care facility.

It's exaclty the same thing that would happen in an NHS hospital if something went wrong during or following an elective procedure, the only difference is that usually (but not always) the two departments are in the same building.

Or are you suggesting that if someone becomes in need of emergency care, having had a procedure done in a private hospital disqualifies them from receiving NHS critical care? How is it any different to when Carlisle infirmary fucks something up (which they seem to do on a distressingly regular basis as far as I can see) and the patient needs to be transferred to Newcastle to fix it?
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 21:40 - 17 Dec 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm absolutely not suggesting they don't get care. I do think that providing that care is where most of NHS problems are because its not resourced properly.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 23:03 - 17 Dec 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobby the Bastard wrote:
I'm absolutely not suggesting they don't get care. I do think that providing that care is where most of NHS problems are because its not resourced properly.


You could have literally endless funding for the NHS, and you wouldn't fix its problems. As I said, it's a question of people and organisation.
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