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Yay! Limitless fusion energy is here... or is it?

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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 19:31 - 13 Dec 2022    Post subject: Yay! Limitless fusion energy is here... or is it? Reply with quote

Breakthrough in nuclear fusion energy announced

As ever with BBC News no journalists were harmed in the production of this article Sad They mention "hydrogen" throughout but the reaction diagram explicitly shows Deuterium + Tritium fusing to form Helium 4 + free neutron. "But! But! The public are too stoopid to understand the concept of isotopes!" get bent.

The isotopes are the central problem with nuclear fusion. Protium (normal Hydrogen) and Deuterium are both stable and we have via the oceans an indefinite supply of both. Tritium on the other hand has a half life of ~12 years so it doesn't turn up naturally. Ironically a good source would be from something like a water-cooled nuclear fission reactor, you know, the sort we're doing away with because renewables are so fantastic Rolling Eyes

"Infinite Energy!" would therefore require Deuterium + Deuterium fusion making either Tritium or the unstable Helium 3 and then a follow on Deuterium + Tritium or Deuterium + H3 reaction to be viable and I would guess that's at least a magnitude of difficulty beyond that trumpeted in the news article.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 19:57 - 13 Dec 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, I saw that but to be fair the only thing they are trumpeting is that they actually got out more power than they put in.

Maybe it is a tipping point but it is way beyond my physics level so I am not holding my breath. Most of these scientific 'breakthroughs' take decades to become mainstream .

I very much doubt I'll see a working reactor in my lifetime or that it will come before climate catastrophy.
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Pete.
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PostPosted: 20:09 - 13 Dec 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:
Yes, I saw that but to be fair the only thing they are trumpeting is that they actually got out more power than they put in.


Which of course they didn't...

True they stuffed 1.8MJ into the target and got 2.5MJ out, but the lasers delivering that 1.8MJ gobbled up ~500MJ of energy to do it.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 20:41 - 13 Dec 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:


I very much doubt I'll see a working reactor in my lifetime or that it will come before climate catastrophy.


Climate catastrophe is already here! 2 days at 40deg in summer, and now cold in the winter! We're all doomed (by next weekend) I tell ye!
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 21:38 - 13 Dec 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pete. wrote:
Polarbear wrote:
Yes, I saw that but to be fair the only thing they are trumpeting is that they actually got out more power than they put in.


Which of course they didn't...

True they stuffed 1.8MJ into the target and got 2.5MJ out, but the lasers delivering that 1.8MJ gobbled up ~500MJ of energy to do it.


Yes, you are correct, so they are talking shite.

The experiment was only able to produce enough energy to boil about 15-20 kettles and required billions of dollars of investment. And although the experiment got more energy out than the laser put in, this did not include the energy needed to make the lasers work - which was far greater that the amount of energy the hydrogen produced.

It's like saying how overall efficient an electric car is when ignoring the cost to create the electricity needed to charge it.
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 09:08 - 14 Dec 2022    Post subject: Re: Yay! Limitless fusion energy is here... or is it? Reply with quote

Easy-X wrote:
Ironically a good source would be from something like a water-cooled nuclear fission reactor, you know, the sort we're doing away with because renewables are so fantastic Rolling Eyes



The huge building site at Hinkley Point seems to indicate that the opposite is actually true in the UK.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 11:05 - 14 Dec 2022    Post subject: Re: Yay! Limitless fusion energy is here... or is it? Reply with quote

Nobby the Bastard wrote:
Easy-X wrote:
Ironically a good source would be from something like a water-cooled nuclear fission reactor, you know, the sort we're doing away with because renewables are so fantastic Rolling Eyes



The huge building site at Hinkley Point seems to indicate that the opposite is actually true in the UK.


The general trend is for loads more nuclear fission sites?
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 11:10 - 14 Dec 2022    Post subject: Re: Yay! Limitless fusion energy is here... or is it? Reply with quote

Easy-X wrote:


The general trend is for loads more nuclear fission sites?


A lot more generating power at least.

https://www.independent.co.uk/climate-change/opinion/sizewell-c-nuclear-power-britain-energy-bills-b2116074.html

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/agreement-to-progress-development-of-new-uk-small-modular-reactors
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 11:35 - 14 Dec 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yay! Limitless fusion energy is here ... or is it?.

No it isn't, limitless media idiocy is, so go back to bed.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 12:49 - 14 Dec 2022    Post subject: Re: Yay! Limitless fusion energy is here... or is it? Reply with quote

Nobby the Bastard wrote:


2 hardly seems like "a lot" Thinking

TBF we're both wrong:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/263945/number-of-nuclear-power-plants-worldwide/

tl;dr The number of plants has plateaued since the '80s. BTW the above graph doesn't consider old plants going offline and new plants generating more energy...

https://ourworldindata.org/nuclear-energy

I suppose if you think about the geo-stability issues of a nuclear sites all the best spots have been taken by now.

Anyhoo, there's not enough Tritium production in the world to make a "simple" fusion reactor viable. A real journalist might point that out but I suppose regurgitating press releases is much cheaper.
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Old Thread Alert!

The last post was made 1 year, 132 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful?
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