KZ1000 ignition problems

[Easy-X]

Just check my thinking on this one...

The old fellas Kwacker was intermittently but now permanently firing on 2 cylinders. Left coil supplies cylinders 1/4 and the right coil does 2/3. The coils go back to an ancient Dyna electronic ignition module which in turn gets it's timing signals from two coil pickups. AFAIK this is not some fancy CDI unit that changes timing curves etc. just a black box that converts the pickup signals into on/off for the coils - pretty much a direct points conversion. (Advance is old skool mechanical counterweights.)

Anyhoo, I've swapped over the ignition module to coil connections and the spark moves from 2/3 to 1/4 so I'm assuming the coils are okay. Swapping the pickup outputs around does not move the spark so I'm assuming the pickups are okay. I stripped back a little bit of insulation from the 1/4 wire close to the ignition module and there's continuity to the coil end so I'm assuming the wire is okay (no breaks) so that just leaves the ignition module.

So we're going with a modern Dyna S DS2-1 system which is an entirely different animal to the old set up: new timing plate that wires straight to the coils with all the electronics built in. Fingers crossed it sorts the problem
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Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter

[Bhud]

Are you replacing your coils with Dyna S ones too?

[Easy-X]

Probably not. The specs sheet says >3ohm should be fine and the ones on the bike are only 6 months old. Is there anything special about the Dyna ones?
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Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter

[Bhud]

The impedance on the standard coils is different from the Dyna S ones.
On KZrider they prefer original points ignition, and they do say that Dyna systems are fine, but they don't last forever, and that the Dyna coils are specifically designed for Dyna ignition systems. I'm not saying your system won't work, but the approach I would take is to use Dyna coils with a Dyna system (for peace of mind), and Kawasaki (used) coils for a points system, and never any unbranded aftermarket new coils (I've used aftermarket coils more than once, and they are junk).

[stinkwheel]

Dynacoil ignitions were notorious in their day for demanding a healthy, fully charged battery.
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“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[Easy-X]

[A100man]

[Robby]

Given your fondness for arduinos and shit, would any of the semi-homebrew ignition systems work?

[Easy-X]

[WD Forte]

I'd always agree with replacing points with reluctors or hall effect pulsers
this pic suggests the Dyna uses reluctors with adjustment.
to set up pulser to tip distance .

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/j6QAAOSwn11hQltP/s-l1600.jpg


fine, but I'm not impressed by the cabling quality and anything that uses a fucking scotchlok !!
it looks a bit homebrew/prototype stage to me.

What's inside the controller box is probably a closely guarded secret but as they
insist on >3 ohm coils I'll guess at TCI.

At the end of the day if it works and he's happy, so be it.
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bikers smell of wee

[Easy-X]

AFAIK the only other choice* is Boyer Bransden which is a touch more expensive. However the Boyer is a more modern CDI where the original mechanical advance is binned. Looking at the instructions it seems you have to set TDC for the spinning magnet whereas with the Dyna S, slotting onto the mechanical advance, it's just a case of the correct orientation.

BTW Boyer is no better for wiring, also includes one of Scotchlok things Don't worry, that bit will go in the bin. If there's one thing I can manage it's proper wiring

*Unless you count going back to points.
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Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter

[WD Forte]

Ignitech in CZ was a well regarded an option but haven't looked to see if they're still about.
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bikers smell of wee

[redeem ouzzer]

[Bhud]

There's also Power Arc

https://www.powerarc.com/

[Easy-X]

[Islander]

[Easy-X]

At least if the mechanical advance goes wonky there are plenty of options, thanks guys
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Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter

[WD Forte]

I last played with an Ignitech back in the mid 2000's
and know it became a favoured option for folk with CDI type bikes
especially the early CX's

haven't looked them up for ages but see they're still about
( kidding? why the fuck would I be kidding? and WTFs CNC ignition anyway?)

and the TCIP4 looks suitable
https://www.ignitech.cz/en/vyrobky/tcip/tcip.htm
plus a they do points upgrade kits as well in the accessories section
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bikers smell of wee

[Islander]

[Easy-X]

Update: Dyna S plate fitted and static timing done, all worked as expected. Got the strobe gun out and started on the dynamic timing. Just started dialling it in when 1 & 4 stopped working again!

To recap, previous 1 & 4 weren't working at all and now 1 & 4 fail after warm-up so we actually had two problems all along To confirm we stopped for a cup of tea and let the engine cool down, tried again and 1 & 4 were there and working from a cold engine.

"But these are new coils?!" yup, bought in April last year apparently and the old fella spent the amazing sum of... £26 on the pair. Oh, ffs
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Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter

[Bhud]

New ignition system but £26 Chinese coils... I wouldn't give it a second thought. A classic Z would benefit from a cheap new Chinese seat cover (I recommend them - they're good), but coils? Dyna coils all the way, for a Dyna system.

[Easy-X]

Yes, we can do better but Dyna ones are >£180 a pair
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Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter

[Easy-X]

Correction: the current coils were £26 each so middling for price. Informed on the coil problem the supplier's sending out a replacement
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Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter

[Easy-X]

Replacement coil turned up and... now it's only firing on 1 & 2?! Turned out to be restrictive pipes on the temp fuel tank we had hanging up. 1 & 2 carbs are the lowest points when on the side stand Original tank went back on and all 4 fired up just fine.

We'd already done the static timing and so I suggested ragging it down the road and back to clear out the cobwebs (sat about for several weeks at this point) and TBH the old fella set off with the bike sounding like a mixed bag of cats and spanners but it came back purring

Sufficiently warmed up we set the idle & advance timing, adjusted the carb idle setting a tad and then rechecked the timing again. 1&4 vs. 2&3 timing can be adjusted separately and 2&3 did need a tiny tweak. Anyhoo, that's as good as it'll ever get with just a strobe gun and much as the old fella loves this bike I doubt he'll shell out for a dyno. Just waiting on the next reasonable day for him to road test it properly.
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Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter

[WD Forte]

Y'see? this is the problem with online forum diagnosis
and it being best guess at best.

With partial info, we get led down the path of discussing ignition systems when it just needed a proper fucking fuel supply!
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bikers smell of wee