Greasy roads?

[A100man]

I went for a quick spin yesterday only about a 10 mile round trip on teh GT250 and twice felt the back end squirm about on low speed country bends..

anyone else felt this apparent greasiness? Tyre is a newish ME22 fwiw..
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Now: A100, GT250A, XJ598, FZ750

Then: Fizz, RS200, KL250, XJ550, Laverda Alpina, XJ600, FZS600

[doggone]

The salt they are using now has a component makes it stick to roads it might be based on molasses, it takes a while to wash off then ideally dry up again.

[rpsmith79]

[A100man]

[stinkwheel]

The salt also acts like a polishing compound on exposed gravel in the road surface.
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“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[MCN]

Salted roads are slippery... Cause wetted salt is slippery.

I don't believe the put molasses in road salt.

It's the cooncils who buy it and spread it.

I can almost hear the non-motorist polltax-ees bleating about it.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/salt-more-than-just-a-household-ingredient

If a region feels a need then it may add stuff.

There is one source of rocksalt in UK. The mine is in the northern western region of Sunny England.

It's it transported by road and rail (ferries) all over the UK.

Companies can buy it and do what they will with it.
I'm not sure the council sell it. They will put a salt bin out in high risk/remote places though. I think it would be a community spirited duty for a resident to keep an eye on the bin and level of salt. Phone call to the region will get the bin topped up.

Rock salt mining, transport and use is extremely complex and possibly needs its own seasonal forum to do it justice.

It's slippery when wet and slippery even when it's dry.
The small irregularities in the road surface fill with the brine solution. A spell of dry weather before rain washes the brine down the gullies means the salt dries in the wee cracks.
Tyres don't find as much grip then.

Aggregates in tar macadam provide anti-wear and anti skid properties.

Polished roads are a thing.

The council have equipment to test road surface friction during scheduled survey.
If the road surface friction is lower than regulations allow, the road will be resurfaced. Coating of liquid tar and an Aggregate suitable for the road loading.

People take roads for granted which is a crime.

Roads and road tech is fascinating when you dig in to it.

Signs need to be in place and delays possible.

The amount of salt spread is controlled for many reasons too.
One reason is its effects on aquatic organisms in rivers, lochs, lakes, ponds, canals and anywhere it shouldn't be.

And it is extremely corrosive to everything.
It breaks up roads and bridge concrete. Over time.
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Disclaimer: The comments above may be predicted text and not necessarily the opinion of MCN.

[ThunderGuts]

Molasses is indeed added to some versions of road salt; it helps it stay on the road rather than roll off as it's spread or be blown off (on this occasion, not the desired outcome). It's more expensive so isn't used universally. Unfortunately it does make the road greasier and like all road salts, because they're hydroscopic the roads tend to become naturally wet once it's been applied. I used to be involved in winter maintenance many years ago and in the days before everyone was terrified of being sued, it used to be an accepted wisdom that in sub-zero but very dry weather, it can be better to not salt at all as the road is bone dry it is grippy, irrespective of the temperature because there is no frost, whereas introducing salt will make the road damp or wet and actually make it more hazardous. I those days are gone judging by what I see and everyone "comfort salts" to cover their own backs, but in doing so make the road network a salty mess for 4 months of the year, create an environmental issue from chucking all that salt everywhere and erode the Council budgets almost as much as everyone's vehicles are corroded.
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TG.

[doggone]

It seems to be conveniently ignored that most of the salt applied runs straight off into river systems too.
The total might not be that great when diluted, but periodically very strong solutions are entering small tributaries easily enough to kill most things off.
If a lorry loaded with salt were to tip over near a stream the EA would be out trying to soak it up with paper towels but it all goes in there anyway.

[trevor saxe-coburg-gotha]

I was driving along a local unclassified lane last wednesday morning - great for bike, actually - and I was at the legal limit. I came round a slight rightward sweeper sort of bend and there was a car on its roof on the other side, half in the hedge, half in the field. A quaskai (sp?) was stopped on the road, and two women (actually mum and daughter, it turned out), standing on the verge.

I stopped a bit further on, and walked back to see if anyone was knackered. I punched the mother in the tits and did the daughter up the gary - just for old times sake. Nah - i just checked nobody was maimed and decapitated, then had a quick dekko at the car's tyres whilst it was on its roof (all well within tread depth - but obvs PSI could've been way off).

I walked onto the road to see if i could feel anything slippy or clock any iridescence of diesel or oil but there was nothing at all - nothing visible nor anything I could feel with my foot.

But, when I got nearer to my car, I did notice the last foot or so of the road edge was really greasy and without much in the way of grip at all. Again, though, nothing visible. Btw - the roads everywhere were, at that time, still totally without even a whisper of a dry line.

Interestingly, there was a car in the hedge on the same lane 1/2 a mile up the road. Then I drove it again on Saturday and there was fresh and obvious evidence of three more fucked sections of hawthorn where someone had ploughed through into the fields.

This time though there were temporary signs for slippery surface at intervals of about 400 yards or so.

I have been seeing a lot of other wrecked hedgerows - but I can't really say that it's more or less than any other winter tbh.
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"Life is a sexually transmitted disease and the mortality rate is one hundred percent."

Mobylette Type 50 ---> Raleigh Grifter ---> Neval Minsk 125

[MCN]

[MCN]

Rock Salt circa £200/ton.

Molasses circa £450/ton.

Gritter truck 10-13 Tons capacity.

£2000/ Gritter load.

If you know the number of trucks and miles of roads to be treated.

At a rate: 10-40grams t m2.

The cost of treating winter Roads must keep some folk awake at nights.
And after a dose of rain there's nothing to show for it.


The coocils buy tons and tons so probably get favourable rates from the suppliers.
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Disclaimer: The comments above may be predicted text and not necessarily the opinion of MCN.

[ThunderGuts]

[MCN]

Our cooncil have spreader units designed to plop into 10ton tipper trucks.
If a contractor wants a bit of pocket money through the winter they can carry a gritter and join in with the troops.
It means the cooncil don't have the expense of a fleet of trucks they may or may not use.
I'm sure the admin for that must be something too.
Insurance cover for a ten ton truck on winter Roads must leave an underwriter wide open.

It's a very very well coordinated exercise now compared to 40 years ago.
And winters are not as bad either.

People mostly moan when they see a gritter.

The moan would be more valid if they have to drive on untreated roads.
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Disclaimer: The comments above may be predicted text and not necessarily the opinion of MCN.

[MCN]

Double Posting is still a thing.
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Disclaimer: The comments above may be predicted text and not necessarily the opinion of MCN.

[Kentol750]

It's also the shite that gets on the bike constantly. Then the spray also clouds the visor making it impossible to wipe clean, if only there were some way of wiping it off on the go!
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Some bikes.

[blurredman]

[A100man]

[ThunderGuts]

I run ME22 on my C90 and they’re great. Seem to last forever and grip well enough. Bit of tread for the scratchy lanes I end up on too so odd bit of gravel doesn’t pose a problem. Then again it’s a C90 so hardly the best performance test bed but they work for the bike.
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TG.

[stinkwheel]

I've stuck an Ensign Universal on the back of the Bullet for going to the dragon rally next month (I had a spare wheel with one on so may as well take advantage of the QD system). Surprisingly well behaved and has a modicum of tread which should get me in and out of a muddy field and have a little grip if it snows.

I'd normally bung roadriders on for road use. Modern silicone compounds are where it's at for wet, slithery roads.
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“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[stinkwheel]

[MCN]

[stinkwheel]

I believe Norwegians have to sit an extra driving test which includes a skid pan session before they're allowed to drive in snow.

None the less, I believe most of Europe just grits the roads when it's icy, not salt. They also grit bitumen mastic road surfaces for the first few months because they're like glass when wet when freshly laid.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[grr666]

[ThunderGuts]

[blurredman]