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lee8040
Nearly there...



Joined: 27 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: 19:56 - 03 Feb 2023    Post subject: Electric bikes Reply with quote
Has anyone bought one of the electric motorcycles on the market?
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dave001
Scooby Slapper



Joined: 22 Nov 2022
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PostPosted: 22:28 - 03 Feb 2023    Post subject: Re: Electric bikes Reply with quote
lee8040 wrote:
Has anyone bought one of the electric motorcycles on the market?


id rather throw em of a cliff would sell it the same day if they gave me one for free
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 10:26 - 04 Feb 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
I've seen them out in the wild, pitiful creatures.

The problem is the government has no understanding of electric vehicles in general and electric bike in particular. AFAIK the phase out in 2030 starts with 125cc/50cc bikes. You know, the most efficient and least polluting ones Rolling Eyes
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MarJay
But it's British!



Joined: 15 Sep 2003
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PostPosted: 14:29 - 04 Feb 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Easy-X wrote:
I've seen them out in the wild, pitiful creatures.

The problem is the government has no understanding of electric vehicles in general and electric bike in particular. AFAIK the phase out in 2030 starts with 125cc/50cc bikes. You know, the most efficient and least polluting ones Rolling Eyes


You mean the ones most easily replaced by electric bikes? The ones which spend their time in towns? The ones which don't need to meet the current Euro emissions regulations? The ones whose power will be most affected by a catalytic converter? Yeah, that's *so* dumb... Rolling Eyes
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ThatDippyTwat
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Joined: 07 Aug 2016
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PostPosted: 20:29 - 04 Feb 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Easy-X wrote:
I've seen them out in the wild, pitiful creatures.


I only had a really, really quick go, and the battery was fairly down, but a mates Zero has some get up and go. He's promised me a go when work lets up for us and it's got a charged battery.
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Robby
Dirty Old Man



Joined: 16 May 2002
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PostPosted: 12:55 - 05 Feb 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Not yet. I'm waiting for something to come along that meets my requirements* and costs about 10 grand. Also needs to have a dealership vaguely local.

* About 25-50kw, 10kwh battery.

The closest right now is the Harley/Livewire del mar.
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Easy-X
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Joined: 08 Mar 2019
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PostPosted: 12:58 - 05 Feb 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
MarJay wrote:
You mean the ones most easily replaced by electric bikes? The ones which spend their time in towns? The ones which don't need to meet the current Euro emissions regulations? The ones whose power will be most affected by a catalytic converter? Yeah, that's *so* dumb... Rolling Eyes


They're the least polluting in relation to all other ICE vehicles. We should tackle pollution sources that make a tangible difference not just the ones that make us feel good. And don't forget they're also the ones ridden by the poorest people. If you think Deliveroo's expensive now wait till they're all forced to swap to EVs.

That's my central beef: "Save the Planet" is always a case of making poor people poorer Sad
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MarJay
But it's British!



Joined: 15 Sep 2003
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PostPosted: 10:33 - 06 Feb 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Easy-X wrote:


They're the least polluting in relation to all other ICE vehicles. We should tackle pollution sources that make a tangible difference not just the ones that make us feel good. And don't forget they're also the ones ridden by the poorest people. If you think Deliveroo's expensive now wait till they're all forced to swap to EVs.

That's my central beef: "Save the Planet" is always a case of making poor people poorer Sad


Plenty of Deliveroo's run EVs at the moment because electricity is still cheaper than fuel. You seem to think that small capacity electric bikes cost more than a diamond encrusted Gold plated Rolls Royce. They don't. There are LOADS of electric scooters with similar range and speed to 50-125cc scooters for reasonable prices. It's not a massive conspiracy against poor people, it's a replacement powertrain that will eventually replace existing powertrains like-for-like with the only real downside being recharge time. Larger bikes don't really work in the same way i.e. there is no logical equivalent between big IC engined bikes and big electric bikes. That's probably good for the government because they've always hated motorcycling, and would rather ditch the dangerous things. Their KSI statistics would improve massively, and would solve a major blocker for autonomous driving, which would improve their KSI statistics further.

So, if you want motorcycling to continue in some way like we already have, I think buying an electric 'big' bike might be the way forward, even if they aren't as practical as existing IC engine infrastructure. Not only that, you'll find petrol harder to get hold of as time moves on, so you'll find that becoming more and more impractical. We can't ignore climate change, and I'm aware that my car and my bikes could very well be last of breed. I am going to enjoy them now while I can, because I can see the writing on the wall for them, and I think a lot of people (and companies as a matter of fact) are taking the ostrich attitude to the whole thing.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 11:03 - 06 Feb 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
MarJay wrote:
We can't ignore climate change hysteria...


FTFY Sad

Why are ppl still riding 125 scooters if electric ones are so fantastic?

I go in and out of the City a fair bit and I do see some 2 wheeled EVs but they're almost all eBikes i.e. restricted to 250W. There are occasional some naughty freelancers with >250W but as they're illegal they don't count. As to real electric replacements for 125s I've not seen any in town. I've actually seen more out my way (Surrey) but they're ridden by eccentrics and not the Deliveroo crowd.

"We have EV solutions but they're so shite we have to force people at gunpoint to use them. We'll start with the poors first."
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P.
Red Rocket



Joined: 14 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: 11:24 - 06 Feb 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Easy-X wrote:
Why are ppl still riding 125 scooters if electric ones are so fantastic?


Money.

I am guessing it's ALWAYS money. If I could get a 70-75mph '125 but definitely quicker off the line' electric bike that had 200 mile range, I'd get one.

Right now, that's what...how much you reckon one would be. I can get a 125/250 for 3k.

Why would I pay more money for let's say a super soco TCMax. 60mph, 60 mile range. Good for some but you know that's at 30-40mph.

Can get 100mpg bike for 3k or less, most people riding around London or using 125s are on a budget thing.

It's sad. I'd love an electric bike. But my requirement is to be able to go out and not worry, right now... I worry about the range. The price is second to that. What I want I reckon would be 15-20k easy.
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A100man
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Joined: 19 Aug 2013
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PostPosted: 12:05 - 06 Feb 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Easy-X wrote:
There are occasional some naughty freelancers with >250W but as they're illegal they don't count.


these are just about all I see. the pedal assist is disabled too so in effect these people are driving illegal motorcycles - the fuckers.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 13:52 - 06 Feb 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Indeed, I hate to keep banging the drum on this one but there needs to be some hybrid between the current eBikes and ICE bikes (in terms of power) and we're just not seeing them due to the government's ignorance. Something along the lines of the lightness of a bicycle but with a longer wheelbase. Even if speed limited to <40mph the Deliveroo crowd would lap that shit up.
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woo
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Joined: 14 Feb 2005
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PostPosted: 16:57 - 06 Feb 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
when the EV infrastructure and vehicles are on par or better than dino fuel vehicles I will get one, until then in the words of Milla "Wyvern" Radek: Negative, Sir. I refuse!
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 18:31 - 06 Feb 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Potentially EFI vehicles can be re-tuned to run on Ethanol so look forward to the government hunting down illicit stills around 2040 Smile
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Nobby the Bastard
Harley Gaydar



Joined: 16 Aug 2013
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PostPosted: 18:42 - 06 Feb 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Easy-X wrote:
Potentially EFI vehicles can be re-tuned to run on Ethanol so look forward to the government hunting down illicit stills around 2040 Smile


After all the bitching about 10% ethanol in petrol?
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 09:47 - 07 Feb 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Exactly, a lot of it was just bitching.

Fair enough if your vehicle is getting on a bit, it was probably never designed for Ethanol but anything <10yo can handle it (might need a retune.) Anyhoo, the point is technically you could make your own biofuels Smile
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Robby
Dirty Old Man



Joined: 16 May 2002
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PostPosted: 12:42 - 07 Feb 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
A big source of bitching about electric bikes is range. Dig a little deeper and it seems to be not so much range, but compatibility and availability of chargers.

Ethanol contains about half of the energy per litre compared to petrol. So if your petrol bike does 150 miles on a full tank, your ethanol bike does 75.

And you can only refuel from your still at home.

It makes a basic model zero with a range of ~100 miles look tempting in comparison.
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P.
Red Rocket



Joined: 14 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: 13:05 - 07 Feb 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Robby wrote:
A big source of bitching about electric bikes is range. Dig a little deeper and it seems to be not so much range, but compatibility and availability of chargers..


I guess there is that, but also if I had to stop say every (again using the Super Soco TC Max as an example) 50 miles to recharge, thats 6-7 stops on my round trip to my parents. Each at however long it takes to charge.

I am sure technology will improve, infrastructure will improve etc.. It has to, but I really do rely on the round trip and it taking ~3.5-4hrs currently means easily double, maybe triple, multiple day if the charger takes a while...

I want an electric motorcycle and car, I do, but I also want to have the cake and eat it, currently the cakes still being baked, for me obviously... others will vary.
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MarJay
But it's British!



Joined: 15 Sep 2003
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PostPosted: 15:43 - 07 Feb 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
P. wrote:
I guess there is that, but also if I had to stop say every (again using the Super Soco TC Max as an example) 50 miles to recharge, thats 6-7 stops on my round trip to my parents. Each at however long it takes to charge.

I am sure technology will improve, infrastructure will improve etc.. It has to, but I really do rely on the round trip and it taking ~3.5-4hrs currently means easily double, maybe triple, multiple day if the charger takes a while...



But it's about usage. Most drivers and riders do maybe 1 or 2 long trips a year, and for the rest of the time a 50 mile range with ability to 'refuel' at home is absolutely fine. I know leisure riding is a bit different, but for transport this is something that people like to conveniently ignore. "What if I wanted to drive to Scotland tomorrow?" well, it's not very likely is it? Why not use your 50 mile range electric scooter most of the time, then hire a car for the long trip you want to take? It's a practical solution, but it does require a shift in our mindsets away from owning a single do anything vehicle.
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P.
Red Rocket



Joined: 14 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: 17:46 - 07 Feb 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
No I 100% get you. I like to own things, I would like to have both a car and a bike. My journey theoretically could be done by train, but would take 6.5 hours and whilst its green, I don't own it and cant control it.

If I was in town and riding around, heck yeah I'd get one. If I was doing max 10-40 miles a day around town, sure I would love one, but my journeys don't suit electric vehicles right now, they will... but when.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 18:47 - 07 Feb 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
From my house to the City is ~40 mile round trip, that's a recipe for range anxiety if I ever heard one. And if I set off on my ICE bike and I'm on the last bar of the fuel gauge it's a moment's work to fill it up.

EVs are a shite solution. The sooner governments admit to this the sooner we can roll out clever solutions to mitigate the shortcomings. Why bother when it's forced on people?
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Nobby the Bastard
Harley Gaydar



Joined: 16 Aug 2013
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PostPosted: 18:56 - 07 Feb 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Or you could plug it in every night rather than filling it up when it gets empty.
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Robby
Dirty Old Man



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PostPosted: 20:24 - 07 Feb 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Easy-X wrote:

EVs are a shite solution. The sooner governments admit to this the sooner we can roll out clever solutions to mitigate the shortcomings.


They're not though. My fairly basic electric car has a 200 mile range, meaning I the longest I would want to go between charges is 150 miles. On the rare occasion that I do a long journey, I plug in at a fast charger after 2-3 hours driving and have a break. The other 360 days of the year it gets charged at home, cheaply, when I feel like it.

Electric bikes are shit, because a lot of the potential market is people like you, so why bother taking the risk on developing one.

The annoying bit for me is that the technology is there from the car world. Zero were doing a 7kwh battery pack on a bike under 200kg, 10 years ago. Improvements in battery design since then means that could now be 15kwh for a similar volume and a little more mass, and similar price.
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Nute
Derestricted Danger



Joined: 24 Dec 2022
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PostPosted: 05:30 - 08 Feb 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Easy-X wrote:
MarJay wrote:
You mean the ones most easily replaced by electric bikes? The ones which spend their time in towns? The ones which don't need to meet the current Euro emissions regulations? The ones whose power will be most affected by a catalytic converter? Yeah, that's *so* dumb... Rolling Eyes


They're the least polluting in relation to all other ICE vehicles. We should tackle pollution sources that make a tangible difference not just the ones that make us feel good. And don't forget they're also the ones ridden by the poorest people. If you think Deliveroo's expensive now wait till they're all forced to swap to EVs.

That's my central beef: "Save the Planet" is always a case of making poor people poorer Sad


An option if you already live in a city is an electric scooter or EUC ( if you can be bothered to learn to ride one). For those who don’t want a car / motorbike or can’t afford one they are potentially a great solution but our government won’t legalise them.

HMRC figures show there are over a million e-scooters in private ownership in the UK and if the govt really cared about saving the planet they would allow people to use them, but they don’t, it won’t generate sufficient revenue. We have to continue to pay for petrol or over priced train tickets … as you say it’s all about making us poorer.

Sorry for the off topic rant.
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Nobby the Bastard
Harley Gaydar



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PostPosted: 07:58 - 08 Feb 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thats because those electric scooters are fucking dangerous.
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