A quick question for a vet...

[Easy-X]

So some people were asked how much CO₂ is in the atmosphere. 5% ? 7% ? 8% ? Wow... okay

I know from beer cellars you don't need much to fall asleep and wake up dead Only ~1% CO₂ in the atmosphere to start feeling the ill effects and of course if there's a canister leak that percentage will only go up. (Thankfully outside at sea level the concentration is a tiny 0.04%)

Anyhoo, 1% is the number for the average human but how are animals affected? Is that a universal number for mammals or would something like a rat tolerate more or less CO₂ in the atmosphere?

Paging Mr. Stinkwheel
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Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter

[Nobby the Bastard]

If 1% CO2 is lethal, how does mouth to mouth work where what you are exhaling is about 4-5% CO2?
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha:"Remember this simple rule - scooters are for men who like to feel the breeze on their huge, flapping cunt lips."
Sprint ST 1050

[Grizly]

I used to be a scuba diver and we were always concerned with our air purity and how our bodies worked.
We can tolerate higher levels of other gasses for a short time.

We turn oxygen into CO2 and it's that (at about 5%) which triggers our desire to breathe and why hyperventilating before free diving is a bad idea.

The 5% exhaled into another non breathing person will help them with starting breathing again.
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Wohoo!

[Nobby the Bastard]

Surely if you aren't breathing your lungs would be saturated with a much higher percentage of CO2 than the 5% in exhaled air.
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha:"Remember this simple rule - scooters are for men who like to feel the breeze on their huge, flapping cunt lips."
Sprint ST 1050

[Easy-X]

[stinkwheel]

As above, increased Carbon dioxide concentration triggers normal breathing so the 1% you're talking about in an enclosed space will make you feel breathless, maybe sleepy. (remember, the exhaled CO2 will add to the envoronmental levels in your lungs). Not toxic so it would take prolonged exposure to kill you but not something you'd want to be working in

As I recall, over 5% is distincltly unpleasant and will cause all sorts of symptoms, around 9% is toxic and can cause rapid unconciouslness then death. Over 30% is rapidly fatal but acts more like an anesthetic.

As Grizly correctly says, in my field during anaesthetics, there are probably more issues with not enough CO2 because over-ventilation drops the concentration which reduces the automatic breathing responses. You can land up with a patient being hypoxic (not enough oxygen) but also hypocapnic (not enough CO2) and not spontaneously breathing. This isn't a huge problem, it's why we have them intubated and bagged. While hypoxia will eventually trigger rescue breathing, it's not good enough.

There was a fashion for adding some CO2 to the gas mix to stimulate breathing but it's tricky to monitor and geting it wrong can have severe consequences, what we do more often now is monitor them for oxygen saturation and only give extra breaths when this drops below an acceptable level.

I think most mammals are of a similar tolerance to humans. Birds are much less tolerant of poor air quality (think canaries in mines). Not sure exactly why but avian lungs are ridgid and mechanically ventilated by air sacks drawing air back and forwards through them and they have different blood cell structure. The smaller the animal, the more rapid the metabolic rate so I'd expect smaller mammals to get in trouble more quickly but the trouble to happen at similar concentrations. Whales and diving mammals have some weird mechanism for dealing with CO2 I don't really know much about.
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“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[Easy-X]

Just a random thought, whether there were more or less rats in beer cellars 'cos of the CO₂ Thanks, Mr. Stinkwheel!
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Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter

[stinkwheel]

They use high concentrations of CO2 to kill rats for feeding to pet reptiles. Same with pigs, that's why the recent CO2 shortages caused a shortage of bacon.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[Nobby the Bastard]

Point 9f order. My father who was a butcher said everything sold as bacon is actually salt pork and not bacon because it isn't cured correctly.
____________________
trevor saxe-coburg-gotha:"Remember this simple rule - scooters are for men who like to feel the breeze on their huge, flapping cunt lips."
Sprint ST 1050

[stinkwheel]

[MCN]

[stinkwheel]

[Ste]

Rats are known for their ability to tolerate a wide range of environmental conditions, including high levels of CO2. Rats have a high tolerance for CO2 because they have a more efficient respiratory system than humans.

The respiratory system of rats is more efficient than that of humans because rats have a higher respiratory rate and a larger lung capacity relative to their body size. This means that rats can inhale and exhale more air per unit of time than humans, allowing them to eliminate CO2 from their bodies more efficiently.

In addition, rats have a higher concentration of carbonic anhydrase, an enzyme that helps to regulate the pH of the blood by converting CO2 into bicarbonate ions. This means that rats can more effectively regulate their blood pH in the presence of high levels of CO2

[RhynoCZ]

[stinkwheel]

[MCN]

CPR and Rescue Breaths.

30 compressions of at least 2 inches over the heart area between the nipples.

Then two rescue breaths, where a perceivable movement of the chest can be seen.
Blowing too hard can push air into the stomach and create resistance to rescue breaths.

Repeat until exhausted or until Medical help gets there.

The compressions do not create much heart activity but the speed and repeated cycles can help keep a brain alive.
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Disclaimer: The comments above may be predicted text and not necessarily the opinion of MCN.

[stinkwheel]

[Freddyfruitba...]

[stinkwheel]

[Tierbirdy]

Mouth to mouth is fucking gross and no way Id do it Even on a loved one I'd probably think twice.

Generally when someone "dies" the first thing to go is all their muscles relax and the sphincter stopping all your stomach contents going back up your throat opens up and as a result you get a lovely liquid cocktail coming out the mouth that smells like a 3 day old Big Mac. Plus maybe add in a bit of foamy bubbly blood too if people have actually been doing effective CPR rather than gently massaging the chest. I dont think I've ever seen a member of the public giving anything even vaguely resembling effective CPR, so confusing them even further by getting them to try and give mouth to mouth as well is just too much.

Which just means basic first aid and general self care should be mandatory learning at school.

[MCN]

[to v or not to v]

apparently doing cpr properly can result in broken bones for the patient.
most people arent aware just how much pressure is needed to perform it properly.
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current bike Yamaha Thunderace.
its old and fat, but its a damned good ride. the bikes not bad either.

[stinkwheel]

[MCN]

[Ribenapigeon]