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Bolted Joints Mansplained

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MCN
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PostPosted: 10:47 - 25 Apr 2023    Post subject: Bolted Joints Mansplained Reply with quote
https://youtu.be/XLzTB4KLCxU

Not many people know that.
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A100man
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PostPosted: 13:38 - 25 Apr 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Goodbye, Eric!
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Pete.
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PostPosted: 15:32 - 25 Apr 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Yesterday I had to un-do the tightest bolts I have ever come across. M36 TCB bolts done up to 3500Nm, we had to hire a tool with 7000Nm of breaking force to release them with a 1.5" drive 60mm socket. Tool cost 95 quid a day to hire but did the job.

For comparison a normal wheel nut has about 110nm of torque. They wanted us to torch these off but I refused because the pre-load was so high it could fire the nut off like a bullet and we were 30m up on the roof of a building in a city centre.
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 15:35 - 25 Apr 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Pete. wrote:
Yesterday I had to un-do the tightest bolts I have ever come across. M36 TCB bolts done up to 3500Nm, we had to hire a tool with 7000Nm of breaking force to release them with a 1.5" drive 60mm socket. Tool cost 95 quid a day to hire but did the job.



Was the breaker bar you used 6 meters long?
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MCN
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PostPosted: 15:38 - 25 Apr 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nobby the Bastard wrote:
Pete. wrote:
Yesterday I had to un-do the tightest bolts I have ever come across. M36 TCB bolts done up to 3500Nm, we had to hire a tool with 7000Nm of breaking force to release them with a 1.5" drive 60mm socket. Tool cost 95 quid a day to hire but did the job.



Was the breaker bar you used 6 meters long?



Standard Halfords Pro Tools 1/2" drive with a 6' scaffy pipe and two big fat bastirts hanging off the end= 7000Nm of force.
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WD Forte
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PostPosted: 15:46 - 25 Apr 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
That Newton eh?
What was he thinking inventing all that torque stuff?
Must have had shares in a big ass tool factory I bet.
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Pete.
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PostPosted: 17:05 - 25 Apr 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
MCN wrote:
[quote="Nobby ]

Was the breaker bar you used 6 meters long?



Standard Halfords Pro Tools 1/2" drive with a 6' scaffy pipe and two big fat bastirts hanging off the end= 7000Nm of force.[/quote]

Tried that, 3 guys on a 6 foot extension on a 3/4" drive solid bar and socket. Didnt even creak.

Nobby, the tool was a more or less standard battery drill with a gurt big epicycluc reduction drive and torque reaction arm. I had never even seen a 1.5" drive socket before yesterday.

https://youtu.be/sJVtccZE0vg
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 17:31 - 25 Apr 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
I was fucking amazed when I found out that there was an inch drive as well the 1/4, 3/8 and 1/2" drives we are all familiar with and was like being taught about particles having some properties and waves had different properties.

Finding out about 1 1/2" drive is the equivelent of finding out particles and waves are the same thing.
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MCN
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PostPosted: 18:10 - 25 Apr 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Pete. wrote:
Yesterday I had to un-do the tightest bolts I have ever come across. M36 TCB bolts done up to 3500Nm, we had to hire a tool with 7000Nm of breaking force to release them with a 1.5" drive 60mm socket. Tool cost 95 quid a day to hire but did the job.

For comparison a normal wheel nut has about 110nm of torque. They wanted us to torch these off but I refused because the pre-load was so high it could fire the nut off like a bullet and we were 30m up on the roof of a building in a city centre.


Blow Out Preventers (BOP) are bolted over an oil well to eh... Prevent the well from Blowing Out.

They are gigantic gate valves.

The bolt together in sections. Stacked one section on top of the other.
The oil patch people call them 'A Stack' Rolling Eyes

They use 2" diameter studs to hold the sections together.
They are designed to hold back 10,000PSI of pressure from the reservoir.

The Deep Water stacks are much more massive and more complex with more sophisticate remote control. They work on the ocean floor 12000ft below surface. As deep as the the depths of the Titanic.

The big bolts have a nut on each end.
The sockets are 4" 5" AF.

The torques for the studs are quite specific but the crew that clash them together do not understand even rudimentary mechanical principals. If its tight. they use a bigger pipe or bigger hammer.

We have hydraulic torque tools A hyd ram pushes the ratchet drive round. Very powerful tools easily capable of removing fingers or hands.
The guys regularly fuk these tools up.
I don't under stand why they do not take better care of the tools as the alternative is swinging a hammer at a hammer wrench for your whole 12 hour shift.

The hydraulic wrenches have 3/4" 1" 1.5" and 2" square drive.
We even have 2" drive windy guns for lazy days.

When you are using 2" drive anything reality and reason is out the window.

I am quite happy that I do not have to use that shit.
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The Artist
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PostPosted: 18:43 - 25 Apr 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Wait till you guys find out about hydraulic bolt tensioners for when torque values are not reliable enough.

Once tensioned some high tensile bars and as we walked away, the bar exploded firing one end into neighboring steelwork with an almighty bang. Hydrogen embrittlement was the root cause. Shitty Chinese heat treatment.
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Pete.
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PostPosted: 19:05 - 25 Apr 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
The Artist wrote:
Wait till you guys find out about hydraulic bolt tensioners for when torque values are not reliable enough.

Once tensioned some high tensile bars and as we walked away, the bar exploded firing one end into neighboring steelwork with an almighty bang. Hydrogen embrittlement was the root cause. Shitty Chinese heat treatment.


IIRC this was what caused that bridge collapse in Florida a few years ago. The post-tensioner system snapped and the shock dropped the bridge on the freeway.
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The Artist
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PostPosted: 19:21 - 25 Apr 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Pete. wrote:
IIRC this was what caused that bridge collapse in Florida a few years ago. The post-tensioner system snapped and the shock dropped the bridge on the freeway.


Yeah, pre and post tensioning of concrete is critical to most large concrete infrastructure projects these days and usually has lots of redundancy in design. I am not sure what was used in the FIU bridge but normally it is a kind of strand wire with a fairly small OD of around 15-20mm but lots of them.

We were using M36/M42 12.9 galvanised bars to hold a temporary steel structure together and from then on, we switched to a European source for any of the critical large bars. Mill, test and third party witness certificates mean nothing coming from some countries.
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MCN
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PostPosted: 20:25 - 25 Apr 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
The Artist wrote:
Pete. wrote:
IIRC this was what caused that bridge collapse in Florida a few years ago. The post-tensioner system snapped and the shock dropped the bridge on the freeway.


Yeah, pre and post tensioning of concrete is critical to most large concrete infrastructure projects these days and usually has lots of redundancy in design. I am not sure what was used in the FIU bridge but normally it is a kind of strand wire with a fairly small OD of around 15-20mm but lots of them.

We were using M36/M42 12.9 galvanised bars to hold a temporary steel structure together and from then on, we switched to a European source for any of the critical large bars. Mill, test and third party witness certificates mean nothing coming from some countries.


I can get you truck loads of steel in any spec you need from Chiaana or Pakistan.

What sort of certificates do I need to photocopy? Shifty
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to v or not to v
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PostPosted: 21:16 - 25 Apr 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Pete. wrote:


IIRC this was what caused that bridge collapse in Florida a few years ago.


i thought it was the all female design team Laughing
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mentalboy
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PostPosted: 01:47 - 26 Apr 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Pete. wrote:
The Artist wrote:
Wait till you guys find out about hydraulic bolt tensioners for when torque values are not reliable enough.

Once tensioned some high tensile bars and as we walked away, the bar exploded firing one end into neighboring steelwork with an almighty bang. Hydrogen embrittlement was the root cause. Shitty Chinese heat treatment.


IIRC this was what caused that bridge collapse in Florida a few years ago. The post-tensioner system snapped and the shock dropped the bridge on the freeway.


It's Florida, FFS, it could be any number of things. Laughing

For example, rebar in concrete pads that the houses float on is required by code. I say float because pretty much all domestic housing stock in most of lowland Florida floats on the sandy surface on a concrete pad rather than being anchored to the bedrock, which is a long way down. Hence the rebar being required to prevent said pads from breaking up.
A very large construction firm in our old locality, owned by a very influential member of society, would get their foundations signed off by the inspector and on the morning of the concrete pour he would have his foundation crew come in early, remove the rebar and drop it into their next foundation and then pour the concrete in the signed off foundation, sans rebar... Shocked
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MCN
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PostPosted: 16:35 - 27 Apr 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
mentalboy wrote:


It's Florida, FFS, it could be any number of things. Laughing

For example, rebar in concrete pads that the houses float on is required by code. I say float because pretty much all domestic housing stock in most of lowland Florida floats on the sandy surface on a concrete pad rather than being anchored to the bedrock, which is a long way down. Hence the rebar being required to prevent said pads from breaking up.
A very large construction firm in our old locality, owned by a very influential member of society, would get their foundations signed off by the inspector and on the morning of the concrete pour he would have his foundation crew come in early, remove the rebar and drop it into their next foundation and then pour the concrete in the signed off foundation, sans rebar... Shocked


Nothing personal as its only business. Capeesh?

Anytime I think of Florida Civil engineering, I think Sink-Hole.

There's a heart warming YouTube of the sink-hole industry in Florida. Where the gulf is dissolving the land mass. And stuff.
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 16:49 - 27 Apr 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Florida, the place that the doctors in broadmoor point at when they say to their patients 'If you don't take your meds thats what you will look like.'
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