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Assisted Death (Suicide)

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MCN
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PostPosted: 07:31 - 16 Jul 2023    Post subject: Assisted Death (Suicide) Reply with quote
Canada to expand criteria for medically assisted death.
To include people who's prime issue is mental illness.

https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/shes-47-anorexic-wants-help-dying-canada-will-soon-allow-it-2023-07-15/


I felt lifted for a moment there.

I thought they would be taking names.
There are a few that I would put on the list for it.[/list]
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M.C
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PostPosted: 09:57 - 16 Jul 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
At least you posted a source, which is more than chickenshit was willing to do Wink

It's a tough one. I know mental illness can be life long and cause real suffering, but we haven't got a good grasp on mental health in society.

With (as the article says) assisted dying for the terminally ill and those with incurable illnesses, they've probably exhausted treatment options.
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mattsprattuk
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PostPosted: 10:31 - 16 Jul 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Let them. It would be good for the donor list who actually want to live Thumbs Up
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 11:38 - 16 Jul 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
M.C wrote:
With (as the article says) assisted dying for the terminally ill and those with incurable illnesses, they've probably exhausted treatment options.


I don't think most people object to the concept of assisted suicide but the Canadians are rapidly heading towards the Soylent Green version i.e. "do you feel like you're not a productive member of society?"

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/canada-offered-assisted-suicide-paralympian-veteran-wanted-wheelchair-lift-installed-report

"But! But! This shouldn't have happened! It went to court and everything!" Protocols changed, we will have learnings, etc.

Don't be so naïve, they got caught out this one time but the courts are merely a speed bump on the direction of travel.
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to v or not to v
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PostPosted: 13:08 - 16 Jul 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
yep, theyre coming after soldiers with ptsd now.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 14:14 - 16 Jul 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Easy-X wrote:
M.C wrote:
With (as the article says) assisted dying for the terminally ill and those with incurable illnesses, they've probably exhausted treatment options.


I don't think most people object to the concept of assisted suicide but the Canadians are rapidly heading towards the Soylent Green version i.e. "do you feel like you're not a productive member of society?"

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/canada-offered-assisted-suicide-paralympian-veteran-wanted-wheelchair-lift-installed-report

"But! But! This shouldn't have happened! It went to court and everything!" Protocols changed, we will have learnings, etc.

Don't be so naïve, they got caught out this one time but the courts are merely a speed bump on the direction of travel.


Shocked WOW. Is that a policy to offer assited death or just a case worker overstepping his brief?

'I want a stair lift.' 'Yes SIr, now would you prefer arsenic, deadly nightshade or hemlock in your tea?'
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M.C
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PostPosted: 14:54 - 16 Jul 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Easy-X wrote:
M.C wrote:
With (as the article says) assisted dying for the terminally ill and those with incurable illnesses, they've probably exhausted treatment options.


I don't think most people object to the concept of assisted suicide but the Canadians are rapidly heading towards the Soylent Green version i.e. "do you feel like you're not a productive member of society?"

BCF regularly expresses such attitudes? Very Happy
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 16:15 - 16 Jul 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
The topic has been touched on before and I don't recall anyone objecting to assisted suicide in principle.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 16:55 - 16 Jul 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Easy-X wrote:
The topic has been touched on before and I don't recall anyone objecting to assisted suicide in principle.


No, but to suggest it to someone who is disabled rather than dying a painful death is somewhat de trop!
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DaddyStu
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PostPosted: 19:49 - 16 Jul 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
M.C wrote:

BCF regularly expresses such attitudes? Very Happy


We do have a regular supply of asylum seekers if it comes to that.
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 19:52 - 16 Jul 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
If someone was disabled (or even had an untreatable mental condition) that was causing them to live in unbearable conditions, then I wouldn't have an issue with them getting an assisted suicide.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 20:15 - 16 Jul 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nobby the Bastard wrote:
If someone was disabled (or even had an untreatable mental condition) that was causing them to live in unbearable conditions, then I wouldn't have an issue with them getting an assisted suicide.


I think asking for a wheel chair lift is pushing that envelope a bit though Laughing
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 20:55 - 16 Jul 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Polarbear wrote:
Nobby the Bastard wrote:
If someone was disabled (or even had an untreatable mental condition) that was causing them to live in unbearable conditions, then I wouldn't have an issue with them getting an assisted suicide.


I think asking for a wheel chair lift is pushing that envelope a bit though Laughing


Agreed.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 21:19 - 16 Jul 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Easy-X wrote:
The topic has been touched on before and I don't recall anyone objecting to assisted suicide in principle.

I think a lot of people do (from the Christian perspective), not specifically here but where the debate is the most vigorous lets say.

Also came across this the other day...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FxC9zymX0AA1NPD.jpg

Laughing
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MCN
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PostPosted: 20:37 - 17 Jul 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
There's a ethical notion among UK medical types who maintain that end-of-life palitive care is sufficient and suffering is not necessary as there is medication to deal with that.

Keeping a vegetative human alive because of ethics is also unethical.

The other reason medics shy from assisted suicide is because many times its open to abuse by relatives.
Aye... sometimes
Your own blood isn't gonna be the thing that saves you.

Thinking humans might never agree on it.
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 20:56 - 17 Jul 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
That's why the correct checks and balances need to be in place. If the spacker can't or won't articulate their intent with only independant parties present, not chance.

Living wills aside, but even then reasonable checks should take place.
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hellkat
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PostPosted: 22:33 - 18 Jul 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
M.C wrote:


It's a tough one. I know mental illness can be life long and cause real suffering, but we haven't got a good grasp on mental health in society.


I'd go so far as to say we've barely got a grasp upon it at all.

Easy-X wrote:



"But! But! This shouldn't have happened! It went to court and everything!" Protocols changed, we will have learnings, etc."

Again, we're still "having learnings" from when fuck-ups during surgery and other forms of patient care - or when we throw people in prison for things they never actually did. It's gonna be quite a long-haul before we're competent enough to have the learnings BEFORE we let someone top themselves just because they want to.

I'm all for the concept of being able to decide when you want to shuffle off your mortal coil at a Swiss Clinic if you have incurable cancer, but I do think that it requires slightly more than a tick in a box by a psychologist that might still be wet behind the ears.
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Last edited by hellkat on 00:18 - 19 Jul 2023; edited 1 time in total
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hellkat
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PostPosted: 22:37 - 18 Jul 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Side note: If you get a chance to see a series (on Netflix I think it was) called MARY KILLS PEOPLE, then do it.

It's about a physician who does exactly that in her spare time - sees off people who want to die with a syringe full of [something] she puts into a glass of champagne for them to drift off painlessly in their sleep. It has quite a few moments of comedy but also quite a lot of pathos and food for thought.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 23:06 - 18 Jul 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
hellkat wrote:
It's gonna be quite a long-haul before we're competent enough to have the learnings BEFORE we let someone top themselves just because they want to.


For Canada they're not even afforded the time to contemplate that it's whether the State wants rid of you.
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to v or not to v
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PostPosted: 05:39 - 19 Jul 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
hellkat wrote:
.

It's about a physician who does exactly that in her spare time - sees off people who want to die


reminds me of Harold Shipman.
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Fat Angry Scotsman
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PostPosted: 09:48 - 19 Jul 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
M.C wrote:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FxC9zymX0AA1NPD.jpg


I've had day surgeries, asthma treatment, tests for other things, etc and to be honest I cannot remember a time when I had to wait more than a few weeks. I think the worst waiting time I had was when I needed an ingrown toenail surgically removed and it was 4 weeks.

Then again I also have full BUPA just incase I get diagnosed with something major and need treatment fast. Behind that again, if I really needed something urgently the company would probably throw money at it.
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to v or not to v
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PostPosted: 12:38 - 19 Jul 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
come to England and see your waiting times multiply.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 14:09 - 19 Jul 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Fat Angry Scotsman wrote:
M.C wrote:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FxC9zymX0AA1NPD.jpg


I've had day surgeries, asthma treatment, tests for other things, etc and to be honest I cannot remember a time when I had to wait more than a few weeks. I think the worst waiting time I had was when I needed an ingrown toenail surgically removed and it was 4 weeks.

Then again I also have full BUPA just incase I get diagnosed with something major and need treatment fast. Behind that again, if I really needed something urgently the company would probably throw money at it.

I had to wait 6 months to see an NHS consultant.
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hellkat
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PostPosted: 20:27 - 19 Jul 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
to v or not to v wrote:
hellkat wrote:
.

It's about a physician who does exactly that in her spare time - sees off people who want to die


reminds me of Harold Shipman.

Its got a better looking cast.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 22:39 - 20 Jul 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Something to think about...

On the one hand we're meant to recoil in horror if the State were to sanction the execution of a mass murderer and yet the State sanctioning the (voluntary) execution of a law-abiding citizen is an act of compassion Thinking
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