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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 00:19 - 09 Jul 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
M.C wrote:
Islander wrote:
What's your point here?

You know my point, it was tolerated for many years in one direction on twitter. Musk seems to want more of a free-for-all in terms of debate anyway.


Repressive Tolerance or alternatively "it's okay when we do it!"

The central problem with the West is the mainly Christian background. There might not be as many church-goers these days but, like it or not, our laws and societal norms are Christian in foundation. "Love thy neighbour" is all well and good but what if you have a raving narcissist living next door?

All our former virtues are turned against us. Faith? To be laughed at and ridiculed (unless it's Alan Snackbar, don't mess with those fuckers!) Justice? Only applied to those who respect the law. Prudence? Work hard, spend wisely, save for your future... and then see it stolen from you and given to "more worthy" people. Hope? Beaten out of you with every election. Temperance? Everything is bad for you. Taxes on beer and fags only go up. Taxes on Mars bars and full fat Cola. Meat will be next. Fortitude? Now rebranded as toxic masculinity. Charity? Give up everything you own to people you've never met and still be called a racist anyway.

You don't need to be a God-bother to recognise what this is: Evil.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 00:22 - 09 Jul 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Easy-X wrote:
Repressive Tolerance or alternatively "it's okay when we do it!"

The central problem with the West is the mainly Christian background. There might not be as many church-goers these days but, like it or not, our laws and societal norms are Christian in foundation. "Love thy neighbour" is all well and good but what if you have a raving narcissist living next door?

All our former virtues are turned against us. Faith? To be laughed at and ridiculed (unless it's Alan Snackbar, don't mess with those fuckers!) Justice? Only applied to those who respect the law. Prudence? Work hard, spend wisely, save for your future... and then see it stolen from you and given to "more worthy" people. Hope? Beaten out of you with every election. Temperance? Everything is bad for you. Taxes on beer and fags only go up. Taxes on Mars bars and full fat Cola. Meat will be next. Fortitude? Now rebranded as toxic masculinity. Charity? Give up everything you own to people you've never met and still be called a racist anyway.

You don't need to be a God-bother to recognise what this is: Evil.

I see a slightly different link with Christianity, both are zealots who are so confident in their doctrine no one is allowed to question it.
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MCN
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PostPosted: 05:22 - 09 Jul 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
M.C wrote:
Easy-X wrote:
Repressive Tolerance or alternatively "it's okay when we do it!"

The central problem with the West is the mainly Christian background. There might not be as many church-goers these days but, like it or not, our laws and societal norms are Christian in foundation. "Love thy neighbour" is all well and good but what if you have a raving narcissist living next door?

All our former virtues are turned against us. Faith? To be laughed at and ridiculed (unless it's Alan Snackbar, don't mess with those fuckers!) Justice? Only applied to those who respect the law. Prudence? Work hard, spend wisely, save for your future... and then see it stolen from you and given to "more worthy" people. Hope? Beaten out of you with every election. Temperance? Everything is bad for you. Taxes on beer and fags only go up. Taxes on Mars bars and full fat Cola. Meat will be next. Fortitude? Now rebranded as toxic masculinity. Charity? Give up everything you own to people you've never met and still be called a racist anyway.

You don't need to be a God-bother to recognise what this is: Evil.

I see a slightly different link with Christianity, both are zealots who are so confident in their doctrine no one is allowed to question it.


The Christians had a jolly good go at fuking up education in Murica. They tried to get curriculums changed to include creation in history class.

Shot down in tatters.

There are schools in UK parents send their kids to who preach that horseshite.
It is (was) a mandatory study subject at a school I had some involvement with. I disagreed that religion is taught as a subject if it only teaches Christian beliefs. (Church of England Christian (failed Roman Catholics Rolling Eyes ))

If religion is to be taught at a state school it should be taught as a study of all religions.

Whilst they're at it, water devining, Tarot, Quija, Tea Leaf reading and witchcraft should be part of that too.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 09:31 - 09 Jul 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
M.C wrote:
I see a slightly different link with Christianity, both are zealots who are so confident in their doctrine no one is allowed to question it.


Just saying how things started. When Alfred the Great railed against the Danelaw some of it was fighting and some of it was converting the heathens to Christianity. The Post-Modernists all have a good laugh at this and we've all been conditioned to laugh along and completely ignore the centuries of refinement where the stupid shit was jettisoned and the good bits kept.

It's a lot easier to use people's value systems against them when you've convinced them to ridicule their own past.
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Islander
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PostPosted: 10:03 - 09 Jul 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
M.C wrote:
Islander wrote:
What's your point here?

You know my point, it was tolerated for many years in one direction on twitter. Musk seems to want more of a free-for-all in terms of debate anyway.


No, I really don't.

Hate speech is hate speech.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 10:43 - 09 Jul 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Islander wrote:
M.C wrote:
You know my point, it was tolerated for many years in one direction on twitter. Musk seems to want more of a free-for-all in terms of debate anyway.


No, I really don't.

Hate speech is hate speech.


You're okay with "hate speech" trumping truth?
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Islander
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PostPosted: 10:49 - 09 Jul 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Easy-X wrote:
Islander wrote:


No, I really don't.

Hate speech is hate speech.


You're okay with "hate speech" trumping truth?


I'm beginning to think this is a game of logical fallacy bingo. Rolling Eyes
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 10:57 - 09 Jul 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
"Kill all the Muslims!" is incitement to violence.

"Islam is incompatible with Western society." is both truthful and hate speech.
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Islander
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PostPosted: 11:51 - 09 Jul 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Easy-X wrote:
"Kill all the Muslims!" is incitement to violence.

"Islam is incompatible with Western society." is both truthful and hate speech.


It's not truthful at all. Islam gets on quite nicely with western society with the exception of a few idiots intent on causing problems. Western society gets along quite nicely with Islamic society apart from a few idiots intent on causing problems...

You can extend that to whichever social groups you want to. Or you can lean back on ignorant prejudice. Rolling Eyes
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MCN
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PostPosted: 13:12 - 09 Jul 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Islam follows Sharia Law

Sharia Law flies full in the face of Western Law (Roman).

Sharia is nonsense.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 16:32 - 09 Jul 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Islander wrote:
It's not truthful at all. Islam gets on quite nicely with western society...


You have no problem with lobbing queers off multi-storey carparks and treating women like 2nd class citizens? Good to know.
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Islander
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PostPosted: 17:58 - 09 Jul 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Easy-X wrote:
Islander wrote:
It's not truthful at all. Islam gets on quite nicely with western society...


You have no problem with lobbing queers off multi-storey carparks and treating women like 2nd class citizens? Good to know.


Keep going, I'm close to getting a full house here. Rolling Eyes
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 19:16 - 09 Jul 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Have you read the Qur'an?

Mohammad wrote:
Allah thus commands you concerning your children: the share of the male is like that of two females. If (the heirs of the deceased are) more than two daughters, they shall have two-thirds of the inheritance; and if there is only one daughter, then she shall have half the inheritance. If the deceased has any offspring, each of his parents shall have a sixth of the inheritance; and if the deceased has no child and his parents alone inherit him, then one-third shall go to his mother; and if the deceased has brothers and sisters, then one-sixth shall go to his mother. All these shares are to be given after payment of the bequest he might have made or any debts outstanding against him.

You do not know which of them, your parents or your children, are more beneficial to you. But these portions have been determined by Allah, for He indeed knows all, is cognizant of all beneficent considerations.


Fuck being an executor of a will!
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to v or not to v
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PostPosted: 19:24 - 09 Jul 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
i like how they will stone a woman to death as punishment for being raped.
such an enlightened and peaceful bunch.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 19:39 - 09 Jul 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Islander wrote:
M.C wrote:

You know my point, it was tolerated for many years in one direction on twitter. Musk seems to want more of a free-for-all in terms of debate anyway.


No, I really don't.

Hate speech is hate speech.

Which is tolerated as long as it isn't directed at a 'protected group'.

Islander wrote:
It's not truthful at all. Islam gets on quite nicely with western society with the exception of a few idiots intent on causing problems.

https://victimology1994.files.wordpress.com/2019/02/image-3.png?w=640
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 19:46 - 09 Jul 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Tut, tut. No need to reach for the low hanging fruit Wink
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Islander
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PostPosted: 20:12 - 09 Jul 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Oh I was expecting more of the "appeal to extremes" tactics from the usual subjects.

I mean, how dare I criticise their carefully cherry picked world view. Laughing
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MCN
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PostPosted: 20:26 - 09 Jul 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Religion based societies are renowned for the atrocities they carry out in the name of their god/s.

Secular societies carry out atrocities but not in the name of a sky fairy.

Religions are a flaw in man's mental development.

If humans exist for long enough they may evolve a little bit more and lose the religion schtick.
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Islander
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PostPosted: 21:14 - 09 Jul 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
MCN wrote:
Religion based societies are renowned for the atrocities they carry out in the name of their god/s.

Secular societies carry out atrocities but not in the name of a sky fairy.

Religions are a flaw in man's mental development.

If humans exist for long enough they may evolve a little bit more and lose the religion schtick.


I'd agree with most of that with the following changes.

Organised religions are renowned for attracting some individuals that are extremist and carry out atrocities in the name of their god/s. The vast majority of people in these religions don't carry out or approve of these atrocities.

Secular societies also have extremists that carry out atrocities but not in the name of a sky fairy. Again, the vast majority in these societies don't carry out or approve of these atrocities.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 21:24 - 09 Jul 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
MCN wrote:
Religions are a flaw in man's mental development.

If humans exist for long enough they may evolve a little bit more and lose the religion schtick.

I think it's more a coping mechanism. The uncertainty of life is more palatable if it's all gods plan. You'll get to see your departed loved ones again one day. Your life might be absolute shit but you'll be rewarded in the afterlife or re-incarnated in a better situation (depending on your beliefs).

My problem is generally the gods plan types lack responsibility for their own actions. Religious folk are generally supremacist in their beliefs (sometimes explicitly so), and said beliefs can be incompatible with where they're living.

In general it just seems to manifest in worse behaviour and worse places to live:
https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-53a5f71ba3c7c9bb9c8c6f3ad3d3dd53-pjlq

^my argument with chikenstrip was if you had to be dropped in the least or most religious country (with no other info') you'd pick the least. The worst you could do there is Russia and I'm pretty sure it would be higher now (given the huge resurgence of orthodoxy).
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M.C
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PostPosted: 21:28 - 09 Jul 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Islander wrote:
MCN wrote:
Religion based societies are renowned for the atrocities they carry out in the name of their god/s.

Secular societies carry out atrocities but not in the name of a sky fairy.

Religions are a flaw in man's mental development.

If humans exist for long enough they may evolve a little bit more and lose the religion schtick.


I'd agree with most of that with the following changes.

Organised religions are renowned for attracting some individuals that are extremist and carry out atrocities in the name of their god/s. The vast majority of people in these religions don't carry out or approve of these atrocities.

Secular societies also have extremists that carry out atrocities but not in the name of a sky fairy. Again, the vast majority in these societies don't carry out or approve of these atrocities.

Yet religious groups seem to commit a lot more, if we're talking about terrorist attacks in Europe (and globally actually).
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 02:42 - 10 Jul 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Islander wrote:
The vast majority of people in these religions don't carry out or approve of these atrocities.


Factually incorrect:

Half of all British Muslims think homosexuality should be illegal, poll finds

And that's from people trying to be as generous as possible...

Quote:
Survey for Channel 4 documentary finds 23% want sharia law but most feel strong connection with Britain

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MCN
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PostPosted: 04:52 - 10 Jul 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Islander wrote:
MCN wrote:
Religion based societies are renowned for the atrocities they carry out in the name of their god/s.

Secular societies carry out atrocities but not in the name of a sky fairy.

Religions are a flaw in man's mental development.

If humans exist for long enough they may evolve a little bit more and lose the religion schtick.


I'd agree with most of that with the following changes.

Organised religions are renowned for attracting some individuals that are extremist and carry out atrocities in the name of their god/s. The vast majority of people in these religions don't carry out or approve of these atrocities.

Secular societies also have extremists that carry out atrocities but not in the name of a sky fairy. Again, the vast majority in these societies don't carry out or approve of these atrocities.


The act of accepting religion as a guide or a force is the mental problem.
It's a political regime as much as belonging to any other political party or faction.

The most irritating thing about religion, is that the faith must be respected and not criticised.
Especially Islam. Critique of Islam is punishable by death.

It prophesses to be the last iteration of religion.

FFS.... If anyone were to spend 5 min study of man's religions over time they would deduce that religion changes like the seasons.
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UncleFester
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PostPosted: 06:56 - 10 Jul 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Faiths should be taught - religion has no place in education, much like it has no place in science.
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MCN
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PostPosted: 08:14 - 10 Jul 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
UncleFester wrote:
Faiths should be taught - religion has no place in education, much like it has no place in science.


It was called witchcraft in earlier times before the Christian Church bullied witchcraft off of the campus. (Not before adopting many or most of their 'pagan' ritual.)

Witchcraft isn't taught in British schools but the subject is discussed and pseudo explained to children.

Halloween is an ancient ritualistic thing we've busted down to a party event.

To a witch or wizard, what we do at Halloween is as blasphemous as desecration of a church or poking fun at the faith.

The church wanted to fund its operations, collecting funds for prayers was a thing.
Witches and wizards collected funds in exchange for curses and spells.

Prayers, curses, spells and oaths all all as effective as each other.

But the church viewed witchcraft as competition to its finances and so made directions to have it outlawed over time.
Serious punishment was metted out for disobedience by witches and wizards.
An Act in defiance of 'God', God's ministers or gods word became a crown offence.

So religion sucks a big phat jobbie.
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