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A100man |
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A100man World Chat Champion
Joined: 19 Aug 2013 Karma :
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Posted: 13:31 - 06 Sep 2023 Post subject: Domestic Electrical Inspection Query.. |
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Here's one for you..
Mate (honest!) has a rental property that failed an inspection recently - a few easy fixes but also 'Low IR reading on N-E connection at CU'
Now the test sheet shows individual IR readings (all > 999 MOhms) for L-L and L-E but there is no entry column for N-E readings, just this statement.. marked with a C2
Consequence £85 p/h plus VAT to investigate..
My question is whether that test is even valid a 'global N-E insulation resistance check? What if there was something plugged into a socket can that skew readings?
My gut feeling is this is an open ended hunt for money. Thoughts? ____________________ Now: A100, GT250A, XJ598, FZ750
Then: Fizz, RS200, KL250, XJ550, Laverda Alpina, XJ600, FZS600 |
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Islander |
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Islander World Chat Champion
Joined: 05 Aug 2012 Karma :
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Posted: 13:46 - 06 Sep 2023 Post subject: Re: Domestic Electrical Inspection Query.. |
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A100man wrote: | Here's one for you..
Mate (honest!) has a rental property that failed an inspection recently - a few easy fixes but also 'Low IR reading on N-E connection at CU'
Now the test sheet shows individual IR readings (all > 999 MOhms) for L-L and L-E but there is no entry column for N-E readings, just this statement.. marked with a C2
Consequence £85 p/h plus VAT to investigate..
My question is whether that test is even valid a 'global N-E insulation resistance check? What if there was something plugged into a socket can that skew readings?
My gut feeling is this is an open ended hunt for money. Thoughts? |
A global IR check normally involves linking L&N together and testing to earth - that way appliances and devices don't affect the result. It's a pretty standard method I think. If they find a low IR to earth on one of the circuits, then they'll unplug everything, split the L&N link and test L to E, N to E and L to N to identify where the issue lies.
An EICR does not include low level (or indeed any) fault finding. It's a report on the state of the system at the time of test and a customer should expect to pay for additional investigation.
A C2 code means that there is a fault present that needs further investigation but that there is no actual danger at present (that would be coded a C1).
If it's something minor that they spot during testing, most electricians will fix it on the spot. If it requires further investigation then it's fair to charge for it - some of these faults can be pretty hard to find.
So it's a fair quote. |
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A100man |
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A100man World Chat Champion
Joined: 19 Aug 2013 Karma :
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Posted: 14:12 - 06 Sep 2023 Post subject: Re: Domestic Electrical Inspection Query.. |
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Islander wrote: | A100man wrote: | Here's one for you..
Mate (honest!) has a rental property that failed an inspection recently - a few easy fixes but also 'Low IR reading on N-E connection at CU'
Now the test sheet shows individual IR readings (all > 999 MOhms) for L-L and L-E but there is no entry column for N-E readings, just this statement.. marked with a C2
Consequence £85 p/h plus VAT to investigate..
My question is whether that test is even valid a 'global N-E insulation resistance check? What if there was something plugged into a socket can that skew readings?
My gut feeling is this is an open ended hunt for money. Thoughts? |
A global IR check normally involves linking L&N together and testing to earth - that way appliances and devices don't affect the result. It's a pretty standard method I think. If they find a low IR to earth on one of the circuits, then they'll unplug everything, split the L&N link and test L to E, N to E and L to N to identify where the issue lies.
An EICR does not include low level (or indeed any) fault finding. It's a report on the state of the system at the time of test and a customer should expect to pay for additional investigation.
A C2 code means that there is a fault present that needs further investigation but that there is no actual danger at present (that would be coded a C1).
If it's something minor that they spot during testing, most electricians will fix it on the spot. If it requires further investigation then it's fair to charge for it - some of these faults can be pretty hard to find.
So it's a fair quote. |
Thanks for the reply
For sure, I appreciate the requirement to pay for further fault tracing but the initial report seems vague. No test reading value and no indication which circuit - if you already have your IR tester out and have tested individual L-Es why not test individual N-Es..?
The inspection took less than 1 hr apparently and was 500 (inc VAT). Ok he is the one holding the inspector's cert and has the right tools so 'tis what it 'tis. The remedial works aspect though always seems to require a CU change ____________________ Now: A100, GT250A, XJ598, FZ750
Then: Fizz, RS200, KL250, XJ550, Laverda Alpina, XJ600, FZS600 |
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Islander |
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Islander World Chat Champion
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A100man |
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A100man World Chat Champion
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Posted: 14:44 - 06 Sep 2023 Post subject: |
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Yeah, property is a threes bed semi as far as I know.
Easy-fix faults were a missing blank on main CU, no RCD provision for sockets to be used outside and wrong rated RCD in garage CU (100mA instead of 30mA)..
The main CU already has some RCD I think (I need to check) so I do think the replacement of that is a con.
As you say a full test requires a fair number (half?) of the socket front for be removed an checked and lighting too afaik, on the face of it this inspection seems lacking.
I'm similar though not as well versed in the procedure I'd say - I did once complete a 17th edition course but that was some years ago.. ____________________ Now: A100, GT250A, XJ598, FZ750
Then: Fizz, RS200, KL250, XJ550, Laverda Alpina, XJ600, FZS600 |
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A100man |
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A100man World Chat Champion
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Posted: 15:24 - 06 Sep 2023 Post subject: |
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Ok so now I'm a bit more enlightened but also confused by the report
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ek1u2RjQffU
This video shows the IR test procedure at the CU first testing between lives (L to N in other words) then L&N combined to Earth, (no separate L-E or N-E) -since as I also noted there are only two columns in teh test sheet for IR test result..
But in my mates case all the L-N and LN -E tests are recorded as good passes (>999 MOhm) , so how can there be a N-E low reading ____________________ Now: A100, GT250A, XJ598, FZ750
Then: Fizz, RS200, KL250, XJ550, Laverda Alpina, XJ600, FZS600 |
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Islander |
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Islander World Chat Champion
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A100man |
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A100man World Chat Champion
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Posted: 20:23 - 06 Sep 2023 Post subject: |
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Ok Update..
Site visit by self reveals oldish MCB CU with auxiliary RCD units for the garage feed and cooker.. also already installed were some socket front RCD power breakers to serve the garden, ones which the erstwhile inspector didn't even spot!
The company is now back tracking I believe on the CU update requirement, and IMO brings into question the competence of tester.
There remains a question mark over the RCD requirement for the garage which is currently 100mA but the tester said should be 30mA, but could that be a retrospective value..?
Interestingly UK power networks had to renew the connection into the house as the main fuse blew in February and stated it was a TN-CS in theri paperwork left, but the tester identified it as TN-S.. ____________________ Now: A100, GT250A, XJ598, FZ750
Then: Fizz, RS200, KL250, XJ550, Laverda Alpina, XJ600, FZS600 |
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Islander |
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Islander World Chat Champion
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A100man |
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A100man World Chat Champion
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Posted: 23:20 - 06 Sep 2023 Post subject: |
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Islander wrote: |
It sounds like an iffy IECR. The external sockets should all have been tested for polarity even if that was with a test plug and that should have enabled the tester to identify that they were the built in RCD type.
100mA RCDs are usually used to permit discrimination between the 30mA RCD in the main CU and an RCD in the remote DB but without knowing the setup it's impossible to say. The other place a 100mA RCD is used is on a TT setup but that would also be a time delay type. That could be the case if the supply earth wasn't exported to the remote db and an earth rod used instead.
Identifying a TN-C-S as a TN-S? The DNO usually slaps labels on the supply head stating that it's a PME installation and a simple check would show that the local earth was directly connected to the supply neutral. |
Indeed, I'm quite enjoying researching this and dusted off my on site guide and admittedly out of date 17th edition book from 2010 (time flies). Also enjoying your you tube guy, it says something that I'm watching that rather than telly ____________________ Now: A100, GT250A, XJ598, FZ750
Then: Fizz, RS200, KL250, XJ550, Laverda Alpina, XJ600, FZS600 |
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bugeye_bob |
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bugeye_bob World Chat Champion
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A100man |
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A100man World Chat Champion
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Islander World Chat Champion
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A100man |
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A100man World Chat Champion
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Posted: 15:42 - 07 Sep 2023 Post subject: |
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UPdate 2
The shysters have thrown the towel in.. back tracked completely and
are prepared to sign it off once some blanks have been fitted.
They are saying the presence of an RCD socket they didn't spot will have thrown out the N-E IR reading, but does that explain how they got
a good L - E reading? Possibly - I don't know enough about that.
The earthing bit wasn't relevant really just a point of interest but someone (UKPN or tester) has identified wrong,.. Ze noted as 0.6 for the record.
Many thanks for all the input - mate is happy and about 1k better off. ____________________ Now: A100, GT250A, XJ598, FZ750
Then: Fizz, RS200, KL250, XJ550, Laverda Alpina, XJ600, FZS600 |
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MCN |
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MCN Super Spammer
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