Forcing people to stop smoking

[Polarbear]

I seem to remember a discussion when NZ put forward this idea of increasing the age you can buy cigarettes until no one can. Well now Sunak has jumped on the bandwagon.

Smoking age should rise from 18, by one year every year - Rishi Sunak

I suppose it's logical as there is absolutely no up side to smoking. However it sort of sticks in my craw as another personal choice being removed.

I used to smoke like a chimney - 40 to 60 a day but I used to have a few puffs and put the fag in an ashtray and forget about it so actually wasn't smoking any where near that much and fags were cheap as chips at sea. I gave up because I stopped enjoying it.

So should we as a country do this? Is the health issues worth dispensing with the freedom issues or if we had known what we know now, would smoking have ever been allowed?

The cost I gather is not an issue as the amount of tax on fags far exceeds the cost to the NHS although I doubt they see much of it.

Would it be the precursor to other ways to ban things that aren't good for you or is it perfectly justifiable that big brother takes a bigger interest in your personal habits and vices?

I personally am not happy with it but I can't argue against the facts.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-67008051
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[Freddyfruitba...]

What's the end game - do they literally intend to up the age requirement year on year? So 25-year-olds will be banned? Then 30-year-olds? Eventually 70-year-olds etc? Sounds really weird. Is there anything else in this country where there are age requirements, once you've reached 18? HGV license at 21 I think; can't think of anything else.

And presumably this means that eventually it will be illegal for anyone at all to buy cigarettes; ie they will be de facto illegal. Remember how Prohibition worked out in the USA? And the illegal drugs industry now? In a world where most countries seem to be moving towards legalising cannabis; banning tobacco does seem to be a strange move.
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[Nobby the Bastard]

It's the New Zealand model so blame the hellkittie.
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[stinkwheel]

I think it makes sense and as a former smoker, I think it would have been better if it was never allowed. Probably would never have started if you hadn't been able to smoke in pubs, clubs, cinemas etc. anyway.

While I was initially against the smoking indoors ban, I now think it is a good idea, going for a fag is now a pain in the arse for the smoker, not the non smoker. Most of the social aspect of it's gone and it's hard to see why anyone would start now.

They are proposing effectively making it so if you were ever legally allowed to buy tobacco, you still are. If you've never been allowed to buy tobacco, you never are. So nobody who's been addicted to something we can all admit is very harmful while it was legal to do so is put in a position of not being able to get it.
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“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
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[struan80]

I think if they banned smoking people would just buy them from illegal dealers, just like cannabis is now. They would potentially become less expensive.

Wish I'd never started smoking. Unfortunately struggling to find the willpower to stop because of my addiction to cannabis makes smoking enjoyable. Not good. I'll keep on trying.

[Bhud]

I don't like or trust this idea one bit.

First, if it's really about public health, why won't he state what he considers to be an acceptable lifespan? Why is it a hush-hush "do not resuscitate" sort of deal when the aged end up in hospital? The problem is, there is no actual point in being 90+, for most people. Some people may want that, or think they want it, but it's just not nice or fun. I think most people recognise that. Everyone dies of something, so it's about time someone had the balls to come up with a number.

Second, what if this isn't really about public health but rather about demonising the whole idea of combustion products (not talking about smoking here). Look at how many people are gluten-sensitive now. Is it really because of gluten, or the awareness of gluten sensitivity? Of course, the syndrome is real, but which came first, the chicken or the egg? Everything in life is harmful. So what's his real goal? I suspect this policy is just a sneaky way to make wood burning, coal, barbecues, diesel heaters, etc. socially unacceptable. After introducing this policy, I suspect that all of a sudden your neighbours will become allergic to your barbecues, will have panic attacks and admit themselves to hospital upon the slightest whiff of a wood fire, and before long you won't be able to get charcoal or dry wood in the shops. The main beneficiaries will end up being electricity companies.

Third, it's easy to grow tobacco, dry it and sell it. Nice black market sideline for anyone who's got a garden.

Unfortunately, as people get older they get respiratory problems. The ministry of truth will reduce the importance of their having worked with asbestos or whatever on the ships in the past, and will focus on the rollups they used to smoke. This idea will be reinforced whenever someone hears their ageing driver or mechanic hack up a dry cough. There will be a lot of ammunition supporting this proposal. I'm fundamentally against it because this is government overreach. The government is not responsible for individual health and lifestyle choices which end up affecting just the individual. The government is there for defence and to create conditions making it possible to have a functioning society. This is NHS tyranny.

[virus]

Pointless waste of time and money making new laws so as to distract us from the ongoing shitshow that is the tory party.


Lets face it, 'the youth' these days all know smoking kills unlike the older generation whos doctors advised it at one point. Also why would they want to smoke anyway when it tastes horrible compared to disposable vapes that taste of cherry and are 'cooler'.

Ex smoker who used vapes to quit here btw. I just truly believe that the vast majority of kids these days arent interested in smoking regular ciggies in the slightest.
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stinkwheel Well I just had my hands up a pigs fanny. Which makes your concerns pale into insignificance.

[Easy-X]

If it was just banning commerical tobacco products I'd be all for it. There's a vast chasm between what Raleigh brought over and poison sold in cellophane wrappers.
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[Howling Terror]

Aye it's addictive, damaging, costly to maintain and repair. <<<Nice setup line there.

Ban it, ban sweets n fatty foods. Bin booze whilst we're being daft.

It's not like nobody knows how moreish smoking is or how smelly it is.
Everyone knows that if you smoke long enough you'll be a gasper going up a few stairs.

A non-smoking policy in buildings and vehicles make practical sense.
Asking someone to not smoke in your house is fine.

Was out watching the Tour de France go by and some lady complained about my smoke wafting by her. This after a half mile of cars, vans and motorbikes wafting by. I ignored her.

I no longer smoke because I'd pretty much smoked until I got fed up of it, plus listening to my lungs whine and wheeze each night...and the phlegm in the mornings....and throughout the day.

As for the different qualities of tobacco...It's smoke in your lungs...it will damage your lungs and make you smell.

The social side of toke-ing I haven't missed. I still meet up with my old tokers and it's upto them what they choose. If I want to get off my head there are still plenty of options.



Leave people be, you silly politicians.
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[rpsmith79]

[rpsmith79]

[stinkwheel]

Yes, I think a lot of people read the title but not the link.

They aren't proposing to force people to stop smoking. They are trying to force people to not start. This law wouldn't really effect anyone who hadn't started smoking underage and was already obtaining tobacco by illegal means.

I can't imagine there are many smokers who would pass up the opportunity to go back in time and stop themselves having that first fag,
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“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[that_impulse_guy]

people who do modelling on when other people die, so that they can work out the correct rates for pension contributions etc...were a bit upset when vaping started to go mainstream around post-2012....a whole bunch of people that were meant to die early may no longer die early and will cost them money. I suspect something similar may happen now. There's always repercussions.

My own view is that if the government was not entrusted with my (free?) healthcare, then they would have no right or say in the matter...so blame the NHS...because its always about money...money..and more money.

I'd personally prefer it to a an individual choice. this "thing" exists...do it or not...
theres a yellow Lamborghini...its made...buy it or dont.
whatevers....some people benefit from smoking (not their lungs, or their physical health) but you can see peeps have a minor fender bender and immediately go grab a fag because it ("calms them...")...let them be...if its a placebo/mental/whatever...thats their dummy and they can use it how they want to.
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[stinkwheel]

[that_impulse_guy]

i read it and understand it and know its based on the NZ model that Adern introduced.

I'm pointing out that theres a thing on this planet that "some" people find beneficial for their own reasons. Future peeps would not have access to this. Whether this is a good thing or a bad is our own choice to form an opinion about. Thats all. I'm not batting for either bloody side here.
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Gone: Yamaha DT50lc, Suzuki DR500, Suzuki A100, Kawasaki z250ltd, RD350YPVS, Suzuki DR Big, Kawasaki AR125, Kawasaki KMX200, Suzuki GS1000S, Katana 1100, GS550M, Suzuki RGV250
Now: Suzuki GSX400X, Suzuki RF900R, NS400R

[struan80]

I sentence you to two months in jail as you had a cigarette when you were 32 and the legal age limit is 31. Does that not sound farcical?

I would like a blanket ban as it would give me a better opportunity to stop. That won't happen either.

[Easy-X]

[rpsmith79]

[Freddyfruitba...]

How many teenagers do actually take up smoking these days?

Round here they are all puffing away on bubble-gum flavoured vapes, but kids smoking actual cigarettes are as rare as hens' teeth.

I'll tell you what though - what they should do is ban all flavoured vapes. The only reason for their existence is to attract new users, whereas they were originally introduced as a way of weaning people off smoking, or at least as an alternative method for nicotine addicts to get their fix in a less unhealthy way. Nobody would claim that cigarettes taste 'nice', so whey were vapes ever allowed to be manufactured in that way?
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[Fat Angry Scotsman]

As an obese guy, if the government was to mandate that all fat people were taken to camps and forced to lose weight by strict diet control and exercise by force I would hate it at the time but afterwards I would be grateful as I don't have the fucking willpower to do it myself.
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PRESENT: 2018 BMW S1000XR SE Sport.
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[grr666]

I'm almost a year into quitting cigarettes with willpower alone. The cravings are long gone now. Now all I have
to do is lose the weight that quitting helped me to pile on. Jacking in beer will help with that but if it wasn't for
the pub then I'd never leave the house. But I hate being a fucking porker.
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[Bhud]

[stinkwheel]

Ok. I'll reposte by saying we don't allow people to ride motorcycles on the road or the track without first undergoing training and/or demonstrating a basic level of competance. Be that state mandated or within the control of the organisers.

I think self flagellation within a cult setting would after a certain point become actionable either under mental health or aiding and abetting laws.

Of course, none of these other potentially self-harming activities generate the same degree of dependance that nicotine does. Once you've started, it is very difficult to stop again if you want to get off the bus.

I would imagine giving up climbing Everst would be quite easy once you started, it's not going to force you to keep climbing against your own will and better judgement until you die. Whereas after a point very near the start, the choice to be a smoker or not is mostly removed.
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“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[to v or not to v]

chipping away at your freedoms one piece at a time.
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[Polarbear]