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This centuries Yom Kippur War kicked off late

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MCN
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PostPosted: 14:06 - 21 Feb 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote
stinkwheel wrote:
MCN wrote:


The Palestinians then set about each other ina civil war.
Israel assumed control of the territory it was given by thebUN and began defending that territory from the terrorist organisation of the PLO.
Since then, Israel have been bombed continuously without let up by their neighbours.


I'm pretty sure there was more to it than that and they "assumed control" of rather more than the UN had suggested.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bd/UN_Palestine_Partition_Versions_1947.jpg


That map is 1956

The un agreement was 1948.

There are many issues over time to consider.

There are many arguments over lines in the sand.

The Palestinian thing is not the subject of the war in the middle East.

The subject of the war is the murder of INNOCENT civilians at a party near a kibbutz. By HAMAS terrorists.

The war in the middle east is to prevent hamas and any of its supporters doing that again.

If the Palestinians want to get into it I'm sure Israel have munitions to suit.

The argument are always against the Jews in Israel.

The murder of Arabs BY ARABS is never protested.
Probably because we all know what Arabs are motivated by.

We don't care if Arab Kills Arab.

Only when Jews retaliate and put measures in place to end terror strikes is there any protest.

It's pathetic the way white people jump on the Palestinian band wagon.
Just to poke the Jews.

Let's forget what all those men and women died for 39-45 then.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 14:33 - 21 Feb 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thing is, they are de-facto annexing Gaza and it isn't theirs to annex. As I predicted a lot earlier in this thread, they are forcing the civillian population further and further South West until they have nowhere left to go.

Do you think they will allow the Pallestinian civillians to return to their homes in the North and rebuild once they reach the Egyptian border/the sea? I believe even now compounds are being constructed just over the Egyptian border to house potential refugees.

Echoes of the Boer War. Scorched earth policy towards the land and homes of the undesired/troublesome population then relocate the non-combatants to concentration camps.

Even if if it was all about Hamas and not fully occupying Gaza, they are fighting a war where they should be carrying out an anti-terrorist operation.
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MCN
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PostPosted: 15:44 - 21 Feb 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote
stinkwheel wrote:
Thing is, they are de-facto annexing Gaza and it isn't theirs to annex. As I predicted a lot earlier in this thread, they are forcing the civillian population further and further South West until they have nowhere left to go.

Do you think they will allow the Pallestinian civillians to return to their homes in the North and rebuild once they reach the Egyptian border/the sea? I believe even now compounds are being constructed just over the Egyptian border to house potential refugees.

Echoes of the Boer War. Scorched earth policy towards the land and homes of the undesired/troublesome population then relocate the non-combatants to concentration camps.

Even if if it was all about Hamas and not fully occupying Gaza, they are fighting a war where they should be carrying out an anti-terrorist operation.


Israel removed their hand from gaza affairs 2006.
Hamas was elected by gaza folk.
Hamas have used un funding to build an underground bunker and tunnel system, stockpile arms and munitions and launch an attack against their neighbours.

Israel have said they want to destroy Hamas.
Hamas are among the gaza people.
Settling the people is the way Israel can sift out hamas.
There is not many other solutions.

Hamas are not interested in peace by their Modus Operandi and their SOP.
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 16:29 - 21 Feb 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote
So, whats your justification for Israel slowly annexing bits of the West Bank?
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MCN
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PostPosted: 16:39 - 21 Feb 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nobby the Bastard wrote:
So, whats your justification for Israel slowly annexing bits of the West Bank?


I'm not interested in that.
The discussion is Gaza, Hamas and what Israel is doing to offset and control a local aggressor.

Don't forget Iran and the fcking nutter regime there is stoking the fires in the middle east.

Iran are zero on human rights.
As are almost any Middle East country.

Name one middle east country that has a clean bill of health for human rights.

Mot a big list.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 17:36 - 21 Feb 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote
MCN wrote:

Israel have said they want to destroy Hamas.
Hamas are among the gaza people.
Settling the people is the way Israel can sift out hamas.
There is not many other solutions.


So they are going to allow the by now thoroughly sifted non-Hamas civillian population to return to the North of Gaza? Or are they playing keepsies?

It's a plain and simple land grab, everyone knows it. Hamas give them the perfect excuse.
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bhinso
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PostPosted: 17:53 - 21 Feb 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote
Certainly political opinion has shifted.

After the October attacks, the sweeping statement from leaders was Israel had every right to defend itself.

What they neglected to say was just how far Israel could go in such measures, and where the 'line' was which should not be crossed. The general feeling now is that such line has been crossed and politicians are trying to 'U' turn as subtly as possible.

I still think Iran's up to some shifty shit. It wasn't long ago Iran fired a load of missiles at Pakistan, and Pakistan fired a load of missiles back at Iran. Both Islamic countries, Sunni/Shia, leave them alone they'll beat shit out of each other.
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 18:30 - 21 Feb 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote
MCN wrote:

Name one middle east country that has a clean bill of health for human rights.


Clearly Israel are amongst those that have a poor record where human rights are concerned.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 19:47 - 21 Feb 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nobby the Bastard wrote:
Unfortunately they're not very good at commiting crimes against humanity? Do you ever think before you type?


If they were any good at it then all the miscreants would have been cleared from the country back in '47 with a ring of steel for the Israeli borders going forward. "This is my bit, that's your bit." Cruel? In the short term most definitely yes but in the long term a lot better than the chaos we have now.

These abstract concepts of "human rights" and "crimes against humanity" were drawn up in the aftermath of WW2 by gentlemen. They only work when both sides act in good faith.

"Human rights" in current day is fighting with one arm tied behind your back against while the other guy is happy to kick you in the 'nads.
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DaddyStu
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PostPosted: 21:56 - 21 Feb 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote
bhinso wrote:


I still think Iran's up to some shifty shit. It wasn't long ago Iran fired a load of missiles at Pakistan, and Pakistan fired a load of missiles back at Iran. Both Islamic countries, Sunni/Shia, leave them alone they'll beat shit out of each other.


Yes they certainly made some miscalculations and might make more yet. Probably feeling impotent in that they hate Israel, support the Palestinians but cant do anything about it. If they do they get wiped out.

Anti-Israel and Anti-US sentiment is only going to increase after this latest flare-up though. So long term, Iran will be able to fill up its proxy squads with ease. Leading to an even bigger flare-up next time.
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 22:31 - 21 Feb 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote
There was a theory that Oct 6th was inspired by Iran because they wanted to spoil Arab-Israeli relations which had been improving recently. Far from being impotent, Iran might have hoped for exactly this response from Israel, and the resulting international concern.

Still, 130 hostages (half the total taken) remain missing, and that must be a huge driver for the Israelis to keep going.
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MCN
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PostPosted: 01:23 - 22 Feb 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nobby the Bastard wrote:
MCN wrote:

Name one middle east country that has a clean bill of health for human rights.


Clearly Israel are amongst those that have a poor record where human rights are concerned.


OK Yasser, we get your point.

Of course there's going to be a weight of human rights claims from people who have no right to complain about human rights.
No other country wants Palestinians in their country.
There's some human rights from their suppliers/supporters.
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MCN
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PostPosted: 01:27 - 22 Feb 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote
bhinso wrote:
Certainly political opinion has shifted.

After the October attacks, the sweeping statement from leaders was Israel had every right to defend itself.

What they neglected to say was just how far Israel could go in such measures, and where the 'line' was which should not be crossed. The general feeling now is that such line has been crossed and politicians are trying to 'U' turn as subtly as possible.

I still think Iran's up to some shifty shit. It wasn't long ago Iran fired a load of missiles at Pakistan, and Pakistan fired a load of missiles back at Iran. Both Islamic countries, Sunni/Shia, leave them alone they'll beat shit out of each other.


The interesting thing is that other leaders weren't attacked.
Israel was attacked by a sworn enemy.
How they prosecute the war is to be determined by Israel.

When Argentina attacked the UK in the Falklands, I don't rememeber Mrs Thatcher listening to any of the leaders that said Britain had no legitimate claim to the territory.

We sent the works down there to put things back in their box again.
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MCN
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PostPosted: 03:19 - 22 Feb 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote
Palestine is:

https://youtube.com/shorts/V8S6OMFKvKk?si=ioth21B8K-Kka9C4
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 08:41 - 22 Feb 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote
MCN wrote:


When Argentina attacked the UK in the Falklands, I don't rememeber Mrs Thatcher listening to any of the leaders that said Britain had no legitimate claim to the territory.


I think that's a very poor comparison. We didn't push beyond internationally accepted borders, we didn't roll tanks into Beunos Ares, nor did we attack any civilian population centres.

As I mentioned before, if you want a comparison, what we did in the Boer War is probably a better mirror. Not Britains finest hour.
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Raffles
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PostPosted: 15:02 - 22 Feb 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote
stinkwheel wrote:
I think that's a very poor comparison. We didn't push beyond internationally accepted borders, we didn't roll tanks into Beunos Ares, nor did we attack any civilian population centres.

We did though sink The Belgrano, with the consequential loss of over 300 lives, when it was in International Waters and sailing away from the area Wink
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 15:23 - 22 Feb 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote
Raffles wrote:
We did though sink The Belgrano, with the consequential loss of over 300 lives, when it was in International Waters and sailing away from the area Wink


Not exactly the same as bombing the shit out of the place you've previously told the populous to head for because it's safe, thought.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 15:25 - 22 Feb 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote
Raffles wrote:
stinkwheel wrote:
I think that's a very poor comparison. We didn't push beyond internationally accepted borders, we didn't roll tanks into Beunos Ares, nor did we attack any civilian population centres.

We did though sink The Belgrano, with the consequential loss of over 300 lives, when it was in International Waters and sailing away from the area Wink


It was a warship, at sea, regrded as a threat. If they didn't want it attacked they should have done what they did with their aircraft carrier, kept it in port.
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Raffles
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PostPosted: 15:48 - 22 Feb 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote
Polarbear wrote:
It was a warship, at sea, regrded as a threat. If they didn't want it attacked they should have done what they did with their aircraft carrier, kept it in port.

I'm not condemning Mrs T's action. I'm merely pointing out that we're not as squeaky clean as some purport when it comes to war misdemeanours.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 19:09 - 22 Feb 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote
Raffles wrote:

We did though sink The Belgrano, with the consequential loss of over 300 lives, when it was in International Waters and sailing away from the area Wink


Yes. Packed the gunwales with civillian non-combatats just out for a leisurely sail about in the vicinity of an isolated group of isalnds in the South Atlantic 300 miles from their coast that they were absolutely forbidden to land on.

I think if the IDF had taken out a group of armed Hamas members with a cross-border airstrike as they were stood on a mountain top inside Gaza strapping on paragliders, no fucks would be given on the international stage.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 19:10 - 22 Feb 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote
I'm wonder if the wailing is less about the tragic loss of life and more about the horror of someone taking decisive action Thinking

Take El Salvador as an example. Murder capital of the world now one of the safest in Central America after the installation of World's Coolest Dictator™ Nayib Bukele. And what is the reaction? "Muh... muh... muh... Human Rights!" Crying or Very sad

Translation: how very dare you represent the people's interests! That's not what democracy's about.
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MCN
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PostPosted: 19:41 - 22 Feb 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hamas are based in densely populated civilian area.
If you plan to start a fight with a very capable armed force then expect to receive return fire.
If you are hiding behind civilians when you start this fight then you are 100% to blame for casualties. 100%.

The IDF are mostly cherry-picking targets.
Hamas just launch missiles in the general direction of where there are Jews.

Israel will not lose because they are out gunned, they can only lose because too many people were sucked in by hamas propaganda.

They are shit at fighting but specially is propaganda.
If one cannot see through the lies then one has to believe the lies.
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MCN
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PostPosted: 19:49 - 22 Feb 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote
stinkwheel wrote:
MCN wrote:


When Argentina attacked the UK in the Falklands, I don't rememeber Mrs Thatcher listening to any of the leaders that said Britain had no legitimate claim to the territory.


I think that's a very poor comparison. We didn't push beyond internationally accepted borders, we didn't roll tanks into Beunos Ares, nor did we attack any civilian population centres.

As I mentioned before, if you want a comparison, what we did in the Boer War is probably a better mirror. Not Britains finest hour.


We were extremely stretched to the very limitnof capabilities to get a task force down there in quick time.
If the Arjees weren't so incompetent and put their hands up rapid, then who knows where further conflict would have ended.
It was fortunate that it ended as swiftly as it started.

If Israel didn't care about people in Gaza then Gaza and everyone in it would have been vaporised on the 8th of October last year.
Chances are continuing to be given by Israel.
If hamas Give up the hostages and put down their guns. The killing will stop.
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 19:18 - 15 Mar 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote
Seems that Isreal is rapidly losing the support of the US. As well as Biden endorsing the suggestion that Netanyahu is a blocker to peace they've put in a resolution for an immediate and sustained ceasefire to the UN.
This is on top of saying invading Rafah is a red line that Israel cannot cross.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 20:27 - 15 Mar 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote
This moving of the civilian population to designated safe areas sounds very similar to Boer War style concentration camps.
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