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virus
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PostPosted: 19:08 - 08 Dec 2023    Post subject: Talk to me about CCTV stuff Reply with quote

After being baffled by all of the different things on amazon and realising I understand very little of the terminology I thought id ask BCF.

Ive got a flat with a garage detatched, garage is visible from my living room window (which is also next to my PC) Im looking for 1 standalone camera with good picture quality that I can put inside the flat on my windowsill looking out at the garage.

Id like:
A phone app to look at if I want to check up
a weeks worth of recording before it begins to overwrite to cover when im on holiday.
No subscription
preferably not too expensive cause im a cheap B*stard.


Any recommendations/ tips?

Cheers
John
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 19:10 - 08 Dec 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know it fails on the subscription front but I was pretty impressed with the quality of the Ring cameras I set up for someone recently. £3.49 per month for storage though Sad
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Robby
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PostPosted: 19:26 - 08 Dec 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

My recommendation is to not be a cheap bastard about it.

The offerings from google or amazon both work well, capture in high definition and back up for a decent amount of time. Not sure about amazon, but the google nest ones are a month.

Then you have the cheaper unbranded stuff. It might work just as well when new, but you need to be sure that the company providing the app, backup service etc will still be there in a few years time. There are also the security considerations - patching matters, and no-name stuff is shit at it.

Final option is something entirely local, basically a webcam backing up onto local or network storage. It can be very cheap if you have the stuff mostly lying around, but far less reliable. Tends to be a hack job of computer, camera, storage and apps. Any of those crashes and you no longer have recording.

Pay the money for nest or ring.
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panrider_uk
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PostPosted: 15:29 - 09 Dec 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you have it inside the infrared from the camera will reflect off the glass back into the lens when it's dark.

Good, cheap ones I've used recently are the TP-Link ones.

£45ish will get you an external rated HD pan/tilt model with motion tracking (it will follow detected movement) and colour night vision.
Their cameras take a microSD card so no subscription required.

Clicky
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 16:47 - 09 Dec 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

Robby wrote:
...but you need to be sure that the company providing the app, backup service etc will still be there in a few years time.


This ^

I have literally replaced perfectly good, working CCTV systems solely because the apps aren't maintained.
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Toecutter
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PostPosted: 18:20 - 09 Dec 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have Swann cctv, they seem to have a whole range of options and it does work well
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P.
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PostPosted: 19:09 - 09 Dec 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blink camera with sync box if your WiFi reaches the garage.

No sub, records to usb attached to sync hub. I wipe it once a month but you can set retention. Just habit of wiping cards/usbs
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A100man
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PostPosted: 20:35 - 09 Dec 2023    Post subject: Re: Talk to me about CCTV stuff Reply with quote

virus wrote:
No subscription
preferably not too expensive cause im a cheap B*stard.


Thumbs Up Cheap Bastards* of the world unite!


* although I prefer the term 'frugal'.
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 21:04 - 09 Dec 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oi! I'm not cheap, I'm affordable...
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virus
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PostPosted: 12:43 - 10 Dec 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

panrider_uk wrote:
If you have it inside the infrared from the camera will reflect off the glass back into the lens when it's dark.



I think thats the main problem im facing. I cant install it on the outside of the building so my only option is inside the window pointing outwards (and to be honest I prefer that so its a bit more subtle anyway)
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sickpup
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PostPosted: 14:26 - 10 Dec 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

The absolute best consumer grade stand alone camera at the moment is the Annke 4K NC800 POE camera which can take a 256gb card. These really are better than anything else.

Pretty much whatever feature you want, they have.

Not cheap, I normally pay £160 each for them.
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P.
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PostPosted: 15:14 - 10 Dec 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just grabbed one to try Sickpup.

Assuming this is the same/similar. It's only £90 right now. https://uk.annke.com/products/ac800?variant=42699887837396&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQiA4NWrBhD-ARIsAFCKwWuG6dlPQJVzEDjFSyfU9xIDBX5ssVvnQ8RuIfq-MQCGyFBXgSJEoC8aAp2cEALw_wcB
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sickpup
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PostPosted: 16:21 - 10 Dec 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

P. wrote:


It's mostly the same. It isn't one of the NC Night Chroma cameras so won't have the same incredible low light level performance, other than that its much the same except the 2 way audio. I don't think you will be disappointed.
If you PM me your mobile number and I remember, I'll whatsApp you some low light level screenshots tonight to give you an idea of how good the NC type cameras are.

IIRC correctly you live in the middle of nowhere so with low ambient light you might end up needing the NC type camera but the camera you've bought has two way sound which is very useful, none of mine have this and I wish they did.

My 7 camera system is a mix of C800 and NC800 cameras and it works very well. Might have to add an AC800.

I do recommend you give it a static IP and access it through your browser, it just seems to work better than the Guardian vision software but you're better with computers than me so ymmv.
Any problems let me know and I'll give what advice I can.


Last edited by sickpup on 09:24 - 11 Dec 2023; edited 1 time in total
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sickpup
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PostPosted: 09:23 - 11 Dec 2023    Post subject: Re: Talk to me about CCTV stuff Reply with quote

virus wrote:
that I can put inside the flat on my windowsill looking out at the garage.


Just noticed that bit, it will create a problem.
You need to mount the camera outside or you will get reflections when the room is lighter than the outside or when the IR illuminators turn on.
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virus
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PostPosted: 10:29 - 11 Dec 2023    Post subject: Re: Talk to me about CCTV stuff Reply with quote

sickpup wrote:
virus wrote:
that I can put inside the flat on my windowsill looking out at the garage.


Just noticed that bit, it will create a problem.
You need to mount the camera outside or you will get reflections when the room is lighter than the outside or when the IR illuminators turn on.



Yeah its certainly not the best but Im not allowed to bolt things to the outside of the building.

Im currently considering one of the wireless blink ones paddy mentioned and then sticking it to the outside of the window frame with some weatherproof double sided tape.
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own: 81 xs1100g...
owned: 85 rat CG (sold), 91 GS500e (stolen), 84 gsx400f (scrapped), 81 z250 (siezed, siezed, scrapped), 83 cb250rs (sold), 84 gpz750r ratfighter (killed) 84gpz400 (sold), '80 cb650 ratfighter (wrote off) 95gsx6/12f ratfighter (killed) 91 xj900 (sold)
stinkwheel Well I just had my hands up a pigs fanny. Which makes your concerns pale into insignificance.
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The Artist
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PostPosted: 10:42 - 11 Dec 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

sickpup wrote:

It's mostly the same. It isn't one of the NC Night Chroma cameras so won't have the same incredible low light level performance, other than that its much the same except the 2 way audio. I don't think you will be disappointed.
If you PM me your mobile number and I remember, I'll whatsApp you some low light level screenshots tonight to give you an idea of how good the NC type cameras are.

IIRC correctly you live in the middle of nowhere so with low ambient light you might end up needing the NC type camera but the camera you've bought has two way sound which is very useful, none of mine have this and I wish they did.

My 7 camera system is a mix of C800 and NC800 cameras and it works very well. Might have to add an AC800.

I do recommend you give it a static IP and access it through your browser, it just seems to work better than the Guardian vision software but you're better with computers than me so ymmv.
Any problems let me know and I'll give what advice I can.


Just out of interest, do you use any other hardware? NVR or decoder etc?

I am planning my CCTV system and I have experience with commercial grade hikvision kit and it is very good. The Annke one you recommend seems to be a similar spec but lower price than the hikvision ones I am looking at although minus PTZ, but the main thing I like about hik is the NVR and decoder software. I guess I need to check if the hik kit works with Annke cameras.
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MCN
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PostPosted: 10:53 - 11 Dec 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://uk.eufy.com/products/bundle-t88713w1-1-t80303d1-81-1?ref=navimenu_1_2_2_img&fliter_category=security-camera

I ordered this system with four cameras.

The cameras are wireless, the signal covers a hoowur of a distance. Weatherproof, easy to install, configure and the base has an IP so you can watch your gaff/garage being burgled from anywhere that you have an Internet connection. Thumbs Up

It may seem pricey. But.... Swaan do a wired system that's aphaph to install, set up and configure, for about the same coin
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MCN
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PostPosted: 10:57 - 11 Dec 2023    Post subject: Re: Talk to me about CCTV stuff Reply with quote

sickpup wrote:
virus wrote:
that I can put inside the flat on my windowsill looking out at the garage.


Just noticed that bit, it will create a problem.
You need to mount the camera outside or you will get reflections when the room is lighter than the outside or when the IR illuminators turn on.


Also... the glass can cause tamperfereage with focus and rain on the outside distorts the image too.
Mounted outside, at least you can use the light function to alert any perps or even better, shout at the bastirts to stop breaking into your s4it, in a gruff voice of course.
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The Artist
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PostPosted: 11:34 - 11 Dec 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

After some googling, it appears Annke is just rebadged hikvision kit for consumers.

Even the software looks identical to hikvision.

The main feature most suppliers seem to boast about is the ability to view the feeds anywhere in the world but I really do not want all my cameras going through Chinese servers. My system will be offline and then I may host my own server to access the cameras directly if needed.

All these apps offering free video hosting for no reason is a bit dodgy.
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sickpup
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PostPosted: 13:19 - 11 Dec 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Artist wrote:
After some googling, it appears Annke is just rebadged hikvision kit for consumers.


That's correct. Consumers have lower demands so as you say essentially the same kit for a lower price.

The Artist wrote:
Even the software looks identical to hikvision.


There are a few differences but again as I understand it, essentially it is the same.

The Artist wrote:
The main feature most suppliers seem to boast about is the ability to view the feeds anywhere in the world but I really do not want all my cameras going through Chinese servers. My system will be offline and then I may host my own server to access the cameras directly if needed.


You should be able to remove web access by mis-configuring the web gateway address although I suspect the best way to do it would be to block access at the router. To be blunt, you can't trust any IOT company to do what they say although I believe Hikvision/Annke are better than most as they are so high profile.

The Artist wrote:
All these apps offering free video hosting for no reason is a bit dodgy.


Yes it is. Various companies used to use XVR Pro which was a good Android App in it's time but is now considered spyware.

The Artist wrote:
Just out of interest, do you use any other hardware? NVR or decoder etc?

I am planning my CCTV system and I have experience with commercial grade hikvision kit and it is very good. The Annke one you recommend seems to be a similar spec but lower price than the hikvision ones I am looking at although minus PTZ, but the main thing I like about hik is the NVR and decoder software. I guess I need to check if the hik kit works with Annke cameras.


I also run an Annke hybrid NVR, the D981BB which was bought while I was still running BNC cameras. This was always an interim until I get a full on POE NVR likely to be a 16CH N46PCK or an N96PBD as either takes 2 hard drives and leave lots of room for expansion.

The Hik and Annke will work together from what I have read. At worst they will work together through the Onvif standard. I'm pretty sure Hik don't run any software lockout against Annke.

In regards to planning your system as I'm guessing you already know but bears saying for others, I would say make sure your NVR is physically secure but also physically reachable. I've found with most NVR's that you can do most things via a browser but initial setup it's just easier to be connected direct to it and there is always one thing you can't do via the browser.
I would also say do your best to keep away from wireless camera's. They seem like a really good idea except most need power running to them, in congested wifi areas you can get reduced visual quality and they are lower visual quality then POE wired of the same price whether that be resolution or frames per second.

Ideally you would run your NVR and router via a UPS. If you have Smartthings or some other smart system, add smart plugs for forced rebooting when away from the house in-case there is a problem.
If you have a hybrid router that takes a sim-card, with a little bit of work you can then be pretty much as secure as any commercial bespoke system.
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bugeye_bob
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PostPosted: 13:21 - 11 Dec 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Look are Hik`s cheaper cousin, Annke used to be Sannce/An other cheap copy.
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sickpup
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PostPosted: 13:33 - 11 Dec 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

bugeye_bob wrote:
Hi Look are Hik`s cheaper cousin, Annke used to be Sannce/An other cheap copy.


Sort of yes. Annke aren't owned by Hikvision but are from what I can gather made by Hikvision. Its all very incestuous. Not really cheap copies, more made for different markets.

I actually buy my higher end Hikvision cameras from the Sannce Ebay shop and its cheaper than buying from Hikvision.
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The Artist
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PostPosted: 15:16 - 11 Dec 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

sickpup wrote:
I also run an Annke hybrid NVR, the D981BB which was bought while I was still running BNC cameras. This was always an interim until I get a full on POE NVR likely to be a 16CH N46PCK or an N96PBD as either takes 2 hard drives and leave lots of room for expansion.

The Hik and Annke will work together from what I have read. At worst they will work together through the Onvif standard. I'm pretty sure Hik don't run any software lockout against Annke.

In regards to planning your system as I'm guessing you already know but bears saying for others, I would say make sure your NVR is physically secure but also physically reachable. I've found with most NVR's that you can do most things via a browser but initial setup it's just easier to be connected direct to it and there is always one thing you can't do via the browser.
I would also say do your best to keep away from wireless camera's. They seem like a really good idea except most need power running to them, in congested wifi areas you can get reduced visual quality and they are lower visual quality then POE wired of the same price whether that be resolution or frames per second.

Ideally you would run your NVR and router via a UPS. If you have Smartthings or some other smart system, add smart plugs for forced rebooting when away from the house in-case there is a problem.
If you have a hybrid router that takes a sim-card, with a little bit of work you can then be pretty much as secure as any commercial bespoke system.


Thanks. PoE is definitely the way to go for these things and if I do end up with a couple of PTZ cameras, I have no issue running a few small 12v/24v cables to those locations.

I definitely don't want wireless for this proper system and will be running cat6 all over the house shortly.

I do have an old Hikvision DS-7608NI-I2/8P with a big HDD at the moment, I just haven't plugged it in yet. I am just going to keep my eye out for some second hand Annke or Hikvision cameras now I think. Adds up quickly when you need a few. Once I have at least 1 camera, I will set it up on my desk and play around with it, seeing what I can do for independant secure remote access.
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virus
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PostPosted: 17:06 - 11 Dec 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blink mini, blink outdoor and sync module ordered, found a bundle price of 45 quid so thought at that price I may as well give it a shot.
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own: 81 xs1100g...
owned: 85 rat CG (sold), 91 GS500e (stolen), 84 gsx400f (scrapped), 81 z250 (siezed, siezed, scrapped), 83 cb250rs (sold), 84 gpz750r ratfighter (killed) 84gpz400 (sold), '80 cb650 ratfighter (wrote off) 95gsx6/12f ratfighter (killed) 91 xj900 (sold)
stinkwheel Well I just had my hands up a pigs fanny. Which makes your concerns pale into insignificance.
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The Artist
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PostPosted: 20:09 - 11 Dec 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

virus wrote:
Blink mini, blink outdoor and sync module ordered, found a bundle price of 45 quid so thought at that price I may as well give it a shot.


I have a blink kit temporarily. It's ok for the price but they get you on the subscription model if you want to keep full functionality.
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