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New EU federation state do you support it?

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New EU federation state do you support the creation of it?
Yes what happens to EU is matter of EU parliament
42%
 42%  [ 6 ]
No if EU does that UK will leave ECHR and the Solar system
7%
 7%  [ 1 ]
Don't know and care
28%
 28%  [ 4 ]
Like Farage I support Putin & Russian federation from Ural to the Atlantic ocean
21%
 21%  [ 3 ]
Total Votes : 14

Author Message

Nobby the Bastard
Harley Gaydar



Joined: 16 Aug 2013
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PostPosted: 22:41 - 11 Feb 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote

An EU army wouldn't mean there is more army available in Europe, it will just mean that various units of various countries will be under central control of a organisation called the EU army rather than under the control of their respective countries.

Thats basically the setup that NATO uses and as soon as Article 5 is invokes the 'EU' army will be subsumed under NATO control in exactly the same way as those self same units from various countries would have been subsumed under NATO so an EU army is largely irrelevant where Russia is concerned.
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Val
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Joined: 03 Nov 2012
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PostPosted: 11:00 - 12 Feb 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobby the Bastard wrote:
An EU army wouldn't mean there is more army available in Europe, it will just mean that various units of various countries will be under central control of a organisation called the EU army rather than under the control of their respective countries.

Thats basically the setup that NATO uses and as soon as Article 5 is invokes the 'EU' army will be subsumed under NATO control in exactly the same way as those self same units from various countries would have been subsumed under NATO so an EU army is largely irrelevant where Russia is concerned.


Exactly my point. One army with centralised command and control and unified gear will be more effective and much stronger then 27 different armies each having different gear like tanks. NATO cannot help making 27 armies better.

Quote:
EU Army Promises Greater Defence Capability for the Same Money.

The defence policy of the EU Member States is highly fragmented and unnecessarily costly. The multitude of different weapon systems and unnecessary parallel structures are creating enormous costs without producing additional benefits that would increase operational capacity. A European army promises greater defence capability for the same money. In large armies, the relation between available soldiers and the total number of armed forces is much better. A European army would help to reap these economies to scale.


Ste wrote:

Would EU members have to increase their defense spending for the EU Army to be setup and run?

How can it be a viable idea when many EU countries who are in NATO are currently spending less than 2% of their GDP on defense?

Who's going to fund it all?

You've said that the EU Army would be in NATO but why would NATO want that?


Quote:


Another major advantage is that an EU army would put an end to the free-rider problem in defence policy. Many EU countries are relying heavily on the defence efforts of larger Member States, neglecting their responsibility to finance their own armed forces. A European army would be financed from the EU budget, taking account of the share of the individual Member States in the overall EU gross national income. This would be a fair financing formula for providing the European public good of defence. With their initiative, Macron and Merkel are on the right path towards creating real added value for the European Union.”


https://www.zew.de/en/press/latest-press-releases/eu-army-promises-greater-defence-capability-for-the-same-money

Why NATO would want that? How about NATO wants to be stronger and EU to spent more on defence? Which is exactly what will happen with stronger EU army.
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Nobby the Bastard
Harley Gaydar



Joined: 16 Aug 2013
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PostPosted: 11:07 - 12 Feb 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote

Where is the EU going to get the army from? It won't be a new army, it will be the armys of the countries in Europe seconded to this euro army and the EU paying the countries for their services.
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Fat Angry Scotsman
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PostPosted: 11:45 - 12 Feb 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote

You see, I actually wouldn't have minded being a state in a European Federation. My business was doing better inside the European Union than it has been on the outside.

There are loads of punitive measures that the UK takes against the EU and the EU against the UK nowadays. One of the more ridiculous ones is that shipments of steel goods to Italy from the UK needs to undergo inspection to ensure it's free of radioactive contamination, which of course adds delays and fees.

The most annoying one is that test reports for products that were done in UK laboratories are not accepted in the EU anymore and ones from the EU are not accepted in the UK. Dumb as hell since they were accepted both ways until Brexit and the UK is still part of the European Co-operation for Accreditation (EA) and all the International Laboratory Accreditation Cooperation (ILAC). Means UK businesses need to pay double for testing and certification on products now. When you consider it's for a commodity product and amortise that over the cost of the product for the 3 years that the tests are valid for then your product can almost cost double what it used to just in certification costs going into them.

But hey you got your country back, the NHS get's an extra £350,000,000 a week now, brown people something something, snow flake something something little England yay!

Brexit is dogshit.
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Diggs
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Joined: 03 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: 17:07 - 12 Feb 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote

If Trump gets back in we may need all the help we can get...
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Easy-X
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Joined: 08 Mar 2019
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PostPosted: 18:10 - 12 Feb 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote

Diggs wrote:
If Trump gets back in we may need all the help we can get...


Trump's the Republican candidate 'cos they couldn't find anyone better. Think on that Shocked
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MCN
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Joined: 22 Jul 2015
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PostPosted: 04:22 - 13 Feb 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote

Easy-X wrote:
Diggs wrote:
If Trump gets back in we may need all the help we can get...


Trump's the Republican candidate 'cos they couldn't find anyone better. Think on that Shocked


Hold it Pal.....

Trump was in competition with Hilarious Clinton.

Then Biden.


There are no takers for the top job in politics.

The ego driven bastirts cannot take the fallout if they lose.

We've had some belters as leaders in UK too.

Find a politician that isn't an invertebrate and you'll find a decent leader.
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Easy-X
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Joined: 08 Mar 2019
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PostPosted: 13:54 - 13 Feb 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote

MCN wrote:
Find a politician that isn't an invertebrate and you'll find a decent leader.


That's why we have a strict selection process to make sure such people aren't allowed in the hallowed halls of power.
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bhinso
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Joined: 21 Jun 2008
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PostPosted: 14:40 - 21 Feb 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote

Val wrote:
Also stronger EU with an army will keep russians away.


No it won't.

Val wrote:
The European Union has a mix of 30 kinds of tanks, 20 types of planes, and 27 different military offices.


Do these consist of hand held versions with some little kid going 'vrrooooomm'
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