Battery drain issue

[Nobby the Bastard]

So, bought a battery because the old one died, stranding me in Bristol a few weeks ago.

On arrival, it couldn't start the bike, it was saying 12.3V. Charged it up and the bike started with no issues.

Went to use the bike a couple of days later and it wouldn't start again, battery only showing 12.5V. I persevered but it consistantly would not work, after being left overnight, but if charged that day was fine.

Supplier sent another, that was dead on arrival at 12.1V.

They both went back and a new one sent to me (different make) which was on 12.6V on arrival, was unable to start the bike and after 20 seconds of cranking was at 12.3V.

Started the bike once charged but after being left overnight can't start the bike, same before and after voltages same length of cranking.

Draw by the bike for clock etc is 20mA but the battery wasn't even connected when left overnight.

I'm a little loathe to think its another duff battery but I can't find anything wrong with the bike. It starts on the button with a freshly charged battery.

Any ideas?
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha:"Remember this simple rule - scooters are for men who like to feel the breeze on their huge, flapping cunt lips."
Sprint ST 1050

[Easy-X]

Two properties of a battery one would be interested in: can it supply ~12V over a long period at a low current drain (normal running) and can it supply a shed-load of power for a few seconds (cranking current.)

So far, so obvious. I would suggest either the batteries are not chucking out the power they should or for some reason the bike is asking for more power than it should. That a completely topped-off battery can start the bike but an even slightly discharged battery cannot points to the bike demanding much more power than it should to crank over, I would say.

Before I changed the (probably the 2016 OEM) battery on my XSR I'd occasionally have trouble starting it, e.g. left for >1 week. In the borderline cases where you could hear it struggling but it did manage to start the battery voltage was between 11~12V which is much worse than what you're encountering.

I'd be thinking about the starter motor, starter solenoid and starter switch.
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Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter

[stinkwheel]

So it'll crank the bike over for 20 seconds+? Then it wont crank it any more or it'll crank it but not fire up?
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“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[Nobby the Bastard]

I've considered that but I can't actually test cranking amps because my meter can only test up to 10amps, which my bike draws from the batter just by turning on the ingnition because thats what dipped beam would draw.

As a 10Ah battery is going from 12.6 to 12.3V (or fully charged to the point where it can't crank the engine over) in 20 seconds it's either pulling fucking rediculous amps or the battery is fucked. If ity were pulling 30 it would blow the main fuse so I don't think it is that.

Also bear in mind that it should not have lost even a tiny amount of power overnight simply because it wasn't even connected to anything.
____________________
trevor saxe-coburg-gotha:"Remember this simple rule - scooters are for men who like to feel the breeze on their huge, flapping cunt lips."
Sprint ST 1050

[Nobby the Bastard]

[Fizzer Thou]

Having dealt with batteries of all shapes and sizes for many years,on lifeboats as well as on vehicles,they should always be conditioned by charging them for a pre-determined length of time.No battery straight out of the box is going to give its best.This is particularly true of lead/acid batteries.

What type is the battery that is your preferance?

Did you buy them from tayna.co.uk?
____________________
Just talk bikes.What else is there?

Always have a 'Plan B'

[Nobby the Bastard]

It's from Wemoto and there is a sticker on the box saying it was filled and charged by them on Thursday.
____________________
trevor saxe-coburg-gotha:"Remember this simple rule - scooters are for men who like to feel the breeze on their huge, flapping cunt lips."
Sprint ST 1050

[WD Forte]

It's always hard to diagnose anything at a distance but
is it possible you have had run of bad batteries?
If you have perhaps the supplier bought a bad batch of chinese knock offs?
this is just a vague possibilty of course, I've never heard of this actually happening
but who knows?

12.6v dropping to 12.3v after 20 seconds of cranking sounds like pretty normal behaviour

Voltage only gives an indication of health, we need to know how much current a battery
is capable of providing on demand (CCA)
CCA should be as per spec when new but will drop over time in any battery.
I bought a Topdon battery tester recently which has proved very useful in determining the state of health (soh) of my bike and car batteries.
It gives them various tests in and out of a vehicle and even checks the charge
voltage and ripple voltage.

I'd want to check the charge voltage (circa 14V) and current to the battery is being
properly charged when running.

If your new battery checks out as healthy with CCA as per spec or near as
and is being well charged then I may want to see the innards of the starter motor
A high build up of carbon dust could leech off some current when starting
and I once had one where the oil seal had failed and the starter was full of
an engine oil and carbon dust slurry!
Surprisingly, it worked like this but was never very lively at throwing a cold lump over, a strip down, clean up and new seal and brushes got it working like a good un again.

All just guesses of course, but I've had many's a battery at 12.6V ish that started
a bike OK
As always of course, check all related leads connections and grounding.

As it happen I've just been checking the car over as I'm off up norf next week and I took some pics of the gadgets I did do buy, will start a fred in workshop.
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bikers smell of wee

[Fizzer Thou]

So it is a lead/acid type then....

They come from the factory 'dry charged' but still need to have at least 20 hours charge with a constant rate of about 1 amp for motorbike use.

Car battery chargers are useable but charge at far too high a rate and can buckle the plates.Some chargers have the option of car or motorbike use but the one that I have I fit a one ohm 5 watt wire wound reisitor in series to reduce the current flow.This then reduces as the internal resistance of the battery increases as it charges.

Optimate type trickle chargers are no use as they vary the charging rate and cannot supply a constant rate.I tested this function a while ago with an oscilloscope and a multimeter when checking the difference between one of my older Optimates and a newer version.
____________________
Just talk bikes.What else is there?

Always have a 'Plan B'

[P.]

My blackbird was similar but ended up having a new starter fitted post my sale and that sorted it. I just had a 24v starter circuit to skip that issue because I didn't want to strip it down and replace the starter.

[Nobby the Bastard]

Instructions that came with the battery say it has to be charged if it drops below 12.4v.

It's getting to 12.3V in 20 seconds...

It's also a strange coincidence that a problem like this began at exactly the same time as the original battery died (it literally won''t retain more than 12.2V and the charging trick doesn't work on it.)
____________________
trevor saxe-coburg-gotha:"Remember this simple rule - scooters are for men who like to feel the breeze on their huge, flapping cunt lips."
Sprint ST 1050

[Kawasaki Jimbo]

Another vote for always charging a new battery before first use.

[Nobby the Bastard]

[Nobby the Bastard]

Ignore bit about the main fuse, the fuse doesn't cover the starter motor. It could well be drawing more than 30 amps.
____________________
trevor saxe-coburg-gotha:"Remember this simple rule - scooters are for men who like to feel the breeze on their huge, flapping cunt lips."
Sprint ST 1050

[Nobby the Bastard]

So, my options are it's either the battery wasn't sufficiently charged by Wemoto (and bear in mind they sell fuckloads of them all the time so should know what they are doing) or the starter motor is dying.
____________________
trevor saxe-coburg-gotha:"Remember this simple rule - scooters are for men who like to feel the breeze on their huge, flapping cunt lips."
Sprint ST 1050

[MCN]

[Robby]

Did you charge the battery overnight before using it? If not, do that before trying to diagnose anything.

A healthy, charged battery should sit at around 13.5 volts. 12.6 is almost flat, so it will drop to 12.3 pretty quickly.

[Nobby the Bastard]

Charged for 4 hour earlier (finished charging at 3 this afternoon), sitting at 12.87V at present. It's lost about 00.05V since the initial drop after taking it off the charger.

The instructions that came with the battery from the manufacturer state charge for 5 hours a 1 Amp.


Everything I can find on the internet says 12.6V is normal.
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha:"Remember this simple rule - scooters are for men who like to feel the breeze on their huge, flapping cunt lips."
Sprint ST 1050

[jeffyjeff]

Have you considered that you may have resistance in the starter circuit? You can conduct a voltage drop tests to check 1) the starter power feed and 2) starter ground. Voltage drop should be no more than 0.5 volt during cranking. Worth a try just to be sure; I would not condemn the starter before doing a voltage drop test on the vehicle. You might have a problem in a cable, connection, or starter relay. If you are not sure of the battery, you can have it load tested at an auto electric shop or auto parts store. Just a suggestion.
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History shows again and again how nature points out the folly of men - BOC

[Nobby the Bastard]

Update:

Started fine today after leaving it overnight.

Not assuming it isn't the starter though, will leave it a couple of days and see if it still starts.
____________________
trevor saxe-coburg-gotha:"Remember this simple rule - scooters are for men who like to feel the breeze on their huge, flapping cunt lips."
Sprint ST 1050

[A100man]

[Fizzer Thou]

The leaflets that I have received with new lead/acid batteries have always said to give them an initial constant rate charge and the lifespan has always been years,not months.

The Yuasa versions for my Exup and the R1 have been delivered dry charged with the seperate acid packs and using the in-line wire wound resistor has always benefitted the long lifespan after charging for the required time.

Once on the vehicle it would be the regulator which would monitor the output voltage for the benefit of keeping the battery up to the optimum.

Years ago I did have a problem on a car with a voltage reulator that was allowing the output of 17vdc to cause the battery to overcharge and pop off the plugs,spraying acid all over the area under the bonnet.The battery itself suffered as a result.
____________________
Just talk bikes.What else is there?

Always have a 'Plan B'

[stinkwheel]

[A100man]

[Nobby the Bastard]

Battery is still showing 12.8V.
____________________
trevor saxe-coburg-gotha:"Remember this simple rule - scooters are for men who like to feel the breeze on their huge, flapping cunt lips."
Sprint ST 1050