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Minimum wage query.

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dransy
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PostPosted: 16:23 - 01 Apr 2024    Post subject: Minimum wage query. Reply with quote

We all got an email from one of the driver reps the other day and this just doesn't sit right with basically every hgv driver in the company. I'll copy and paste what we got sent . Can someone tell if it's actually legal what they are doing as it seems like a right cunts trick driving a 44t truck for less than minimum wage.



So here goes because we are paid weekly your average wage is taken over how many hours you have worked that week. For example if you only did the minimum of 55 hours then legally by law you have to have taken 2.5 hours break minimum So take that 2.5 hours off 55 and u have worked 52.5 hours even though you have been at work 55.
55 hours @ £11.25 an hour is £618.75 now take that and divide it by 52.5 hours and u get £11.78 which is over minimum wage. A tramper doing 70 hours a week might be on break for 20 hours of that which makes your hourly pay look massive.

Also if you do adr loads, gen sets,splitter trailer tipper trailers all this goes towards your weekly wage as does your meal allowance and fuel bonus. I know it’s a lot of information and it does take time to get your head round it please feel free to call me if you need any further help my number is in Harworth yard on the notice board.
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sickpup
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PostPosted: 17:45 - 01 Apr 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote

The hours are potentially illegal, refer to the UK domestic driving rules.
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Ste
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PostPosted: 23:15 - 01 Apr 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote

Employers do not have to pay staff for rest breaks.

I think that is ultimately what you're asking?

dransy wrote:
So take that 2.5 hours off 55 and u have worked 52.5 hours even though you have been at work 55

Is anything being required of them during the rest breaks?
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 11:05 - 02 Apr 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ste wrote:
Is anything being required of them during the rest breaks?


Good point, if you're told "fill in your timesheets during your break" then while it is a break from driving you'd still be on the clock for work hours.
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Freddyfruitba...
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PostPosted: 15:32 - 02 Apr 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ste wrote:
Employers do not have to pay staff for rest breaks.

Is that definitely the case for legal breaks from driving, when you're at work, but sitting twiddling your thumbs in a layby hundreds of miles from home?
I'm guessing the answer must be 'yes' but it seems unbelievably unfair.
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Fat Angry Scotsman
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PostPosted: 15:45 - 02 Apr 2024    Post subject: Re: Minimum wage query. Reply with quote

dransy wrote:
We all got an email from one of the driver reps the other day and this just doesn't sit right with basically every hgv driver in the company. I'll copy and paste what we got sent . Can someone tell if it's actually legal what they are doing as it seems like a right cunts trick driving a 44t truck for less than minimum wage.



So here goes because we are paid weekly your average wage is taken over how many hours you have worked that week. For example if you only did the minimum of 55 hours then legally by law you have to have taken 2.5 hours break minimum So take that 2.5 hours off 55 and u have worked 52.5 hours even though you have been at work 55.
55 hours @ £11.25 an hour is £618.75 now take that and divide it by 52.5 hours and u get £11.78 which is over minimum wage. A tramper doing 70 hours a week might be on break for 20 hours of that which makes your hourly pay look massive.

Also if you do adr loads, gen sets,splitter trailer tipper trailers all this goes towards your weekly wage as does your meal allowance and fuel bonus. I know it’s a lot of information and it does take time to get your head round it please feel free to call me if you need any further help my number is in Harworth yard on the notice board.


You cannot legally drive and HGV for more than 56 hours in a 7 day week, nor can you drive more than 10 hours in any 24 hour day and you cannot be "on-duty" (working whether driving or doing admin while not driving, etc) for more than 11 hours in any 24 hour day.

Source:

https://www.gov.uk/drivers-hours/gb-domestic-rules

As such, how can the Trampers possibly work (whether driving or on-duty by other means) for 70 hours a week? Are you simply using the amount of time they are in their vehicle and including them sleeping as on the clock?

If they are sleeping in their cab before moving on the next 10 hours of driving then why the fuck would they be paid for that? I don't get paid for going home in-between shifts in the office Laughing

Anyway, if you drove the maximum number of hours you could legally do per week at minimum wage then it's 56 x £11.44 = £640.64. If you were paid the living wage (for London) for the same hours that rises to £736.40.

Sources:

https://www.gov.uk/national-minimum-wage-rates
https://www.livingwage.org.uk/what-real-living-wage

Employers do not need to pay workers during their breaks, but many do voluntarily.

Source:

https://www.gov.uk/rest-breaks-work

I find it shocking anyone would drive an HGV for minimum wage Shocked being away from home and sleeping in a shite cab in-between driving 10 hour stints for minimum wage? No wonder so many of the cunts strangle prostitutes Shocked
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MCN
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PostPosted: 22:37 - 02 Apr 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whe I worked hourly paid in UK it was from 08:00 to 16:30

We were allowed 2x15min tea breaks. Usually lated 30mins.
And 1/2 for lunch.
We were paid 8hrs.

Then hourlyrate x 1.5 for 4 hours over 8
Then hourly x2 for any hours worked over the 4 at 1.5.

Salaried employees were paid for lunch.
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dransy
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PostPosted: 08:16 - 03 Apr 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote

The way I'm looking at is regardless of how many hours worked or how many breaks are deducted what ever the total earnt at the end of week is earnt by working for 11.25 an hour . Surely that's the only way to look at it ?
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Fat Angry Scotsman
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PostPosted: 10:06 - 03 Apr 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote

dransy wrote:
The way I'm looking at is regardless of how many hours worked or how many breaks are deducted what ever the total earnt at the end of week is earnt by working for 11.25 an hour . Surely that's the only way to look at it ?


Well, obviously it matters because why would you use your un-paid breaks to dilute your hourly earnings when the earnings is based on paid working hours, not combined with a break.

Got a payslip to share so we can see what is going on in their recording?
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Ste
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PostPosted: 15:08 - 03 Apr 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote

dransy wrote:
The way I'm looking at is regardless of how many hours worked or how many breaks are deducted what ever the total earnt at the end of week is earnt by working for 11.25 an hour . Surely that's the only way to look at it ?

Are you saying that they are not receiving £11.25 per hour worked? That's hours worked and does not include rest breaks.

In your first post you said: "your average wage is taken over how many hours you have worked that week".

What do you mean by average wage?
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dransy
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PostPosted: 17:06 - 03 Apr 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi ste . The one up above was copy and pasted what the drivers rep sent us . That's what the company have used as an example. I'm not a tramper I'm salaried so it doesn't affect me . The drivers reps have just took it as it is I'm just trying to find out if it's right .

On the trampers wage slip it still says 11.25 an hour . They are getting 11.25 an hour but the new minimum wage is 11.44
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 17:19 - 03 Apr 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote

How would they have had a payslip yet with £11.44 on because this is the rate from the begining of April.....

(Up to the end of march it was £10.42)


https://www.gov.uk/national-minimum-wage-rates
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Ste
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PostPosted: 11:43 - 04 Apr 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote

dransy wrote:
I'm just trying to find out if it's right .

Their calculations are not right!!

dransy wrote:
For example if you only did the minimum of 55 hours then legally by law you have to have taken 2.5 hours break minimum So take that 2.5 hours off 55 and u have worked 52.5 hours even though you have been at work 55.

Where did the 2.5 hour break come from? That's not nearly enough rest break to spread across 52.5 hours of driving.

You're saying 55 hours per week is the minimum but the law says they cannot do that legally for two weeks in a row as they're not allowed to drive for more than 90 hours in any 2 consecutive weeks.

To drive for a total of 52.5 hours, they're allowed to drive for a maximum of 9 hours in a day which can be extended to 10 hours twice a week and they must have a break or breaks totaling at least 45 minutes after no more than 4 hours 30 minutes driving.

To do 52.5 hours of driving it has to be split up into 4h30m chunks. Two of those chunks requires one 45 rest break. Do that five days a week and we're up to 3hr45m of rest breaks so where did the number of 2.5 hours come from in your example as it would be completely illegal?

dransy wrote:
55 hours @ £11.25 an hour is £618.75 now take that and divide it by 52.5 hours and u get £11.78 which is over minimum wage. A tramper doing 70 hours a week might be on break for 20 hours of that which makes your hourly pay look massive.

You and they need to stop doing any calculations that haven't had rest breaks deducted from total time.

Calculations that have not had rest breaks deducted are completely irrelevant and are just confusing everything for everyone.

I think some details are either being lost in communication or lost in the confusion caused by the many irrelevant calculations. The conclusion I draw from it all, is they're being paid minimum wage for what is very close to the maximum number of hours they can drive legally.

They must not drive more than:
9 hours in a day - this can be extended to 10 hours twice a week
56 hours in a week
90 hours in any 2 consecutive weeks

They must take
at least 11 hours rest every day - you can reduce this to 9 hours rest 3 times between any 2 weekly rest periods
an unbroken rest period of 45 hours every week - you can reduce this to 24 hours every other week
a break or breaks totaling at least 45 minutes after no more than 4 hours 30 minutes driving
your weekly rest after 6 consecutive 24-hour periods of working, starting from the end of the last weekly rest period taken.

https://www.gov.uk/drivers-hours/eu-rules

If any of them are members of the United Road Transport Union then they should call the legal helpline. https://www.urtu.com/

Failing that, ACAS would be the people to get advice from. https://www.acas.org.uk/contact
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