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markypea |
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markypea Derestricted Danger
Joined: 25 Mar 2024 Karma :
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Posted: 10:21 - 25 Mar 2024 Post subject: CB600F-Y suddenly dead after a ride |
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2000 CB600F-Y, went out for a ride, all was fine, started up perfectly fine mid-ride. Got back home (thankfully given what happened next), went to put it away a minute later, key on, fuel pump primes, oil light comes on, pressed the starter, nothing, total silence.
Key on, in neutral, side-stand up, clutch in, kill switch on run, silence (other than fuel pump).
Only had it a few weeks, third time of riding it, not a great start. It's got a decent amount of "after market" wiring about it.
Pushed it up the slope into the garage, after some Googling attempted to start by turning on the ignition and jumping the starter relay, it cranked but would not start.
It's almost like the side stand kill, like when you put the side-stand down and it's in gear the engine turns off. But the side-stand is up, and it's in neutral anyway.
Having been away from biking for a couple of years, I splurged £1k on this as a little run-around for popping to see my mother in her care-home a few miles away. Glad that it at least started there and conked out at home! |
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A100man |
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A100man World Chat Champion
Joined: 19 Aug 2013 Karma :
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Posted: 11:50 - 25 Mar 2024 Post subject: |
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If it's not even turning over then I'd suspect one of teh 'asfety' interlock switches as you mention. Sidestand, clutch lever neutral etc..
these can generally be bypassed for elimination purposes.
A correct wiring diagram will be helpful to you. ____________________ Now: A100, GT250A, XJ598, FZ750
Then: Fizz, RS200, KL250, XJ550, Laverda Alpina, XJ600, FZS600 |
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markypea |
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markypea Derestricted Danger
Joined: 25 Mar 2024 Karma :
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Kawasaki Jimbo |
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Kawasaki Jimbo World Chat Champion
Joined: 09 Oct 2015 Karma :
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blurredman |
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blurredman World Chat Champion
Joined: 18 Sep 2010 Karma :
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Posted: 16:31 - 25 Mar 2024 Post subject: |
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Kawasaki Jimbo wrote: | Can you jump start it from another battery? I’m thinking the bike battery wasn’t being charged as you rode. |
Indeed. Those look like the phase wires. ____________________ CBT: 12/06/10, Theory: 22/09/10, Module 1: 09/11/10, Module 2: 19/01/11
Past: 1991 Honda CG125BR-J, 1992 (1980) Honda XL125S, 1996 Kawasaki GPZ500S.
Current: 1973 MZ ES250/2 - 17k, 1979 Suzuki TS185ER - 9k, MZ TS150 - 9k, 1981 Honda CX500B - 91k, 1987 MZ ETZ250 (295cc) - 38k, 1989 MZ ETZ251 - 49k. |
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markypea |
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markypea Derestricted Danger
Joined: 25 Mar 2024 Karma :
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stinkwheel |
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stinkwheel Bovine Proctologist
Joined: 12 Jul 2004 Karma :
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Posted: 18:40 - 25 Mar 2024 Post subject: |
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https://www.bikechatforums.com/download.php?id=106705
FFS
Do you want us to help you track down whoever did that and give them a good slap?
Ok. You need a logical approach. We know the main power is fine because the dash is lighting up. The ignition key is probably ok. The neutral light is working so that should pretty much bypass all the safety interlock nonsense while it's in neutral. You know there's power to the solenoid and that the starter itself works.
So what's left? Starter button. Solenoid, igniotion fuse. The wiring between them. HISS. Kill switch.
HISS first. So you turn the ignition on. Neutral, oil pressure and HISS lights should come on. After a few seconds, the HISS light should go out. If not, that's your problem.
Visually check the fuse.
Then it's voltmeter/circuit tester out. Is there power getting to the starter switch? Is power coming out of it when it's pressed. If not, what's the kill switch doing? If it is, is that power getting to the solenoid? If it is it's the solenoid.
In my experience, Honda solenoids die after about 20 years, so it's on borrowed time. Both my 90's VFRs have had new ones. ____________________ “Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles. |
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markypea |
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markypea Derestricted Danger
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stinkwheel |
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stinkwheel Bovine Proctologist
Joined: 12 Jul 2004 Karma :
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Posted: 21:00 - 25 Mar 2024 Post subject: |
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There's a 2000 FY in my shed which has HISS. I know because just I went down to check what the sequence of lights was when you turn the ignition on and if the kill switch stops the starter motor turning (it does). Amber light with a key next to it on the temperature guage
There are other fuses in a fuse box, one of which is an ignition fuse. The 30A fuse is the main fuse, if it blew, everything would be dead. The others protect sub-systems. I think the fuse box is under one of the fairing fill panels below the right handlebar near the top right corner of the radiator. ____________________ “Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles. |
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Easy-X |
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Easy-X Super Spammer
Joined: 08 Mar 2019 Karma :
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Posted: 22:33 - 25 Mar 2024 Post subject: |
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Maybe HISS was something a previous owner did away with, judging from the pictures so far ____________________ Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter |
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markypea |
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markypea Derestricted Danger
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markypea |
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markypea Derestricted Danger
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markypea |
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markypea Derestricted Danger
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Kawasaki Jimbo |
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Kawasaki Jimbo World Chat Champion
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WD Forte |
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WD Forte World Chat Champion
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RhynoCZ |
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RhynoCZ Super Spammer
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stinkwheel |
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stinkwheel Bovine Proctologist
Joined: 12 Jul 2004 Karma :
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Posted: 21:56 - 27 Mar 2024 Post subject: |
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It's not the battery, he already said it turns over and starts when you short across the solenoid.
Even if it doesn't have enough oomph to keep it going, it is certainly enough to make the solenoid click.
I'm going iffy starter button or a wiring fault.
There should be a block connector for the right hand switchgear. Disconnect this and with the ignition on, short between the black wire and the red on yellow wire with a paperclip or similar, the solenoid should click and the engine should turn over. It won't start. If it turns over, you have a dodgy switch. You could check there is 12v in the black wire too. ____________________ “Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles. |
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markypea |
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markypea Derestricted Danger
Joined: 25 Mar 2024 Karma :
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Posted: 08:19 - 28 Mar 2024 Post subject: |
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Hi,
The last couple of posts came in since I got up before work to play about.
I have one of those Noco boost boxes, connected that, same.
I also have a battery from my Mum's car, it was dead when I went to collect the car from Devon, so I didn't have time to charge it so I just bought a new battery and fitted that. I charged it with my charger (15 year old Optimate 3) and it looked ok. Anyway I connected that to the bike as well, same.
I put the multimeter into the back of the plug going into the starter relay. I was getting 12.1v on all four of them in combinations. I don't know how it works. I get 12.6v on the battery.
I'm going to try the paper clip thing (once I've made a coffee!).
Thanks for the advice, I really appreciate it. I'm am 100% clueless, but I'd like to learn and fix it myself rather than just pay somebody. ____________________ Now: 2000 CB600f Then: 2001 CBR600-FSport, 2001 CBR929RR, 2006 CBR1000RR, 2000 Ex-Police ST1100, 1998 CR250R |
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stinkwheel |
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stinkwheel Bovine Proctologist
Joined: 12 Jul 2004 Karma :
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markypea |
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markypea Derestricted Danger
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stinkwheel |
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stinkwheel Bovine Proctologist
Joined: 12 Jul 2004 Karma :
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Posted: 12:47 - 28 Mar 2024 Post subject: |
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Ok. As i said, bridging that wire will make the starter turn over but it won't start like that because the power is disconnected from the CDI when that connector block is unplugged. It was a test and a successful one, your starter circuit is broadly working.
Your problem is either the starter switch itself or the kill switch.
You can test the switches easily.
Set your multimeter set to read resistance in kiloohms. When there is an open circuit, it will read high. When there is a good connection it will read zero or near zero (you can check this by toughing the leads together).
Disconnect the connector block connected to the right hand switch gear and measure between the white on black and the red on yellow wires on the switch side of it. They should read high normally and low when the starter button is pressed. If not, your starter switch is broken.
Now measure between the black and the white on black. They should read low with the kill switch in the run position and high with it in the kill position. If not your kill switch is broken.
If that's ok, measure between the red on yellow and the black with the kill switch on run and the starter button pressed. It should read low. If not, there is a broken connection inside the switchgear.
Regards the wiring. It has an aftermarket fibreglass fairing fitted. Most of the wiring is standard and would normally be tucked inside the standard round headlamp shell.
I can see a relay on the second picture which is not standard. It's the black box cable tied to the left indicator mount. This is probably because they have fitted a higher power headlamps and are trying to avoid overloading the switch wiring. This is the correct thing to do if it has been done properly. I'd imagine it connects into the headlamp bulb. It shouldn't cause a starting problem unless they have butchered wiring for other circuits to tap into them. Given the previous pictures of wiring, this is possible but your last test above suggests it probably isn't the case, at least as far as getting the starter to turn over on the button is concerned. ____________________ “Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles. |
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markypea |
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markypea Derestricted Danger
Joined: 25 Mar 2024 Karma :
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Posted: 13:02 - 30 Mar 2024 Post subject: |
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Fixed it!!
Starter was ok, but the kill switch was constant no continuity. Dismantled the rhs switches and took the kill switch apart, gave it a little rub with some fine grit and isopropanol, tested it again with it apart all fine and the bike started straight away, rebuilt and tested it again, it all fine. Put everything back to how it was before I started this, all good.
Thank you so much for your invaluable guidance, would have been so much harder without you telling me which colour wires to check. I like to feel like I've learnt something from this. ____________________ Now: 2000 CB600f Then: 2001 CBR600-FSport, 2001 CBR929RR, 2006 CBR1000RR, 2000 Ex-Police ST1100, 1998 CR250R |
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Robby |
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Robby Dirty Old Man
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doggone |
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doggone World Chat Champion
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markypea |
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markypea Derestricted Danger
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