Government approved suicide

[Easy-X]

'I could live 30 years - but plan to die': Has assisted dying in Canada gone too far?

20 years of debilitating pain, certainly I have sympathy for such a scenario.

The article goes over the usual tropes of "slippery slopes" (given Canada's impending expansion of MAID into mental illness) and the whole "sales pitch" aspect. There's a couple of things the article touches on that I don't think get enough attention.

Why is the NHS good and the American healthcare system bad? And I do mean that in objective moral terms. The NHS costs a lot of money and it would be in the best interests of the organisation to cure people and stop them costing money than treat people, possibly indefinitely. America has the best (or worst!) example of why general healthcare should not be treated as a business. Where is the priority to reduce obesity when you can sell people insulin for the rest of their lives, for example.

However, what if the cheapest cure to almost any ailment is to top yourself? Stop being a burden to our holy NHS and do society a favour (if we follow the Canadian model)

This might also relate to research. There's a bit in Star Trek V: The Final Frontier when McCoy is confronted by the guilt of killing his father. In the scene it is explained in similar terms to the BBC example: long term pain, no hope, etc. Except a short time after his father is dead and buried they find a cure.

But if all the people who have incurable conditions at the current moment just disappear, why bother doing any research?
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[Polarbear]

Should I have the right be helped to die? Yes totally if I say so. Should my kids (or wife) have the right to have me euthanised if I'm not mentally capable? Fuck off you money grabbing little shits.

Perhaps we ought to be able to designate a person who has absolutely nothing to gain to decide if you should be put down. It's a sad state where you treat your old dog with more consideration than you treat you old relatives.

I wouldn't want the state to be involved, they are corrupt on so many levels.

I know this isn't quite what you were talking about but my comment on the state being involved is valid for your observations as well as my scenario.
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[Easy-X]

It's a good point. The government could just say it's not illegal to commit suicide but that's not really the issue. It's the supply of paraphernalia to assist or helping someone by giving them an injection. Now we're talking regulation and the government can't stop themselves from getting involved; it's what civil servants live for!

Who could you have as a trusted third-party? Certainly not doctors, if Canada's anything to go by. Probably means lawyers getting involved and next year the ambulance-chasers will be hounding old fuckers over "safety covenants" or some such.

I'm neither for or against "assistance" but the whole thing needs to be treated with care and dignity and I can't see that happening
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[stinkwheel]

Funny how perspectives differ. In my veterinary profession, euthanasia is always a treatment option, even if it's for a condition that's totally treatable or even cureable. Even if it's someone who simply doesn't want to look after a perfectly well animal. It's also undeniably the cheapest option in most long term illnesses.

Despite this, by an order of magnitude, I more often have to have conversations about when people have done enough/too much to keep an animal alive which is leading to an unacceptable quality of like rather than the other way around.

Yes, there are cases where cost comes into it but these are mostly the exception rather than the rule.
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[Polarbear]

[Easy-X]

[Tierbirdy]

Assisted dying is something Im very passionate about, palliative/end of life patients are some of the jobs I take the most... Im not really sure what the right word is, satisfaction sounds wrong, as does enjoyment. But its one of the few times when I feel like Ive made a genuine difference to someone and their family, we're all going to die and most people only get to do it once, so everyone deserves the best death possible.

Absolutely we need assisted dying, because there are some truly awful ways to die out there that nobody should be forced to endure if they dont want to. Its equally as important for the person's loved ones as well, the traume of losing their loved one is at least slightly eased knowing they had a "good" death, arranging a day to get to see everyone in the comfort of their own home surrounded by love in a caring and familiar environment where they can spend the day doing what they want and saying their goodbyes then when the time is right having a nice cup of drugs and just going to sleep. Rather than lingering on for weeks/month in the active dying phase becoming a skeleton-like husk, rattling away drowning in their own secretions waiting for their body to just finally give up and shut down and your last memories of your loved one being that misery and suffering.

The main argument against it is that "oh but palliative care should be better, thats what we should focus on!", and yes palliative care could be improved, but palliative care can only do so much which ususally just involves pain relief and sedation. I dont think it should be an either/or scenario I think both are vitally important options to have. If your beliefs dont allow for it, thats fine, but theyre your beliefs and tell you what to do, not somebody else.

[Freddyfruitba...]

I'm basically all for it - I'd certainly want it for myself if and when the time comes. I have two main issues though.

First - I feel the current proposed law is pointing in the wrong direction, in that assisted dying may be available for those who have been diagnosed as having less han 6 months to live. If it's that short a period - I have a certain sympathy with the 'antis' who claim that better palliative care is the answer. Plus add in the lengthy time it will take to process an 'application', and you have to wonder how much actual patient suffering will be saved? Personally, I'm much more concerned about people who do not have a definitive diagnosis of iminent death - those with enduring motor neurone disease, severe brain damage, complete paralysis etc, for year upon year. My idea of absolute hell. But presumably it's too politically difficult to address that, and the bill has more chance of success in its present form.

My second concern is that of potential coercion. For example. My mum is in her 90s, is very frail, but has most of her marbles, and her care costs are currently burning through her remaining savings at a frightening rate. I have power of attorney, look after all her finances and admin, and I can say that she relies on me and trusts me absolutely (and before I type the next bit, can I just confirm that she's perfectly right to do so!).

My point is that I'm fairly sure that if I were so minded, and wanting to protect my inheritance, I could drip-feed her with the idea that assisted dying was her best way forward. I realise that the current proposals include checking for coercion - that really wouldn't be hard to get round ("Now mum, don't forget when they ask you if anyone's talked to you about this, you must say 'no', or they won't let you do it"). And I find that pretty horrifying.
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[BanditsHigh]

Instead of developing rules and regulations to ensure that someone requesting a dignified death is not being coerced, they just keep on using the same old arguments over and over again, ensuring that it never gets further than discussion.

To be drugged up to the eyeballs on a daily basis, in constant pain with no quality of life, and then call it care is a complete and utter joke ... it's akin to torturing someone until they die.

I wonder what would happen if the scum who run our lives were all diagnosed with incurable diseases, causing incredible pain up and until they died from it ... I think we'd see a change in the law brought in pretty quickly.

I know if I get to the state where I don't want to be here anymore then there will be feck all anyone can do to stop me from doing it!

[to v or not to v]

people are making too much money keeping us alive. why would they want us to be able to opt out.
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Moto Guzzi V7.

[blurredman]

Personally, I'm not sure. Assisted suicide is just sympathetic murder imo - someone killing you on your behalf is still not suicide. You need to do the act yourself I feel? Though I am aware the term officially (?) is regarded also as putting yourself in a situation which would kill you. Whether that be a train, or someone putting a needle in you without protestation.
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CBT: 12/06/10, Theory: 22/09/10, Module 1: 09/11/10, Module 2: 19/01/11
Past: 1991 Honda CG125BR-J, 1992 (1980) Honda XL125S, 1996 Kawasaki GPZ500S, 1979 MZ TS150.
Current: 1973 MZ ES250/2 - 18k, 1979 Suzuki TS185ER - 10k, 1981 Honda CX500B - 91k, 1987 MZ ETZ250 (295cc) - 39k, 1989 MZ ETZ251 - 50k.