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proximity
Crazy Courier



Joined: 08 Oct 2004
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PostPosted: 01:23 - 09 Nov 2004    Post subject: Braking quickly Reply with quote

Is it faster to brake with the clutch in or out, im talking when like a cage pulls in front of you just meters away. I cant really tell with my brakes being so poo (drums). I remember on the car test they told me to not press in the clutch until im stopped on an emergency stop.
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Ste
Not Work Safe



Joined: 01 Sep 2002
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PostPosted: 01:25 - 09 Nov 2004    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you pull the clutch in you will not have any engine braking so do not pull the clutch until you're stopped.
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mr.z
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PostPosted: 01:36 - 09 Nov 2004    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your engine without throttle will under its own weight and friction slow down, engine breaking... engine breaking is your friend, especially on 125s with abismal brakes.

On my cg i think the vast majority of my slowing down was going down the gears, when something pulls out on you then its not really going to help but its worth practiceing, its not ideal, but it works...

But when your emergency breaking you leave the clutch alone (unless you are in a very high gear or are able to go down a couple), forget its there, pulling in the clutch disconnects the rear wheel from the engine, so you have lost some breaking power, (that is assumeing your not on the throttle!) so leave it till your stopped, if you stall then its not a big deal, defenatly less of a problem than meeting with the side of the offending vehacle...


I know the feeling with crappy drum brakes, you need to keep them in very good condition all the time...
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Frost
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Joined: 26 May 2004
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PostPosted: 02:18 - 09 Nov 2004    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think that the engines breaking will come into play when stopping so rapidly in a high gear. Back off the throttle when cruising in a high gear, air resistance slows you as much as engine breaking, and then you often get to a point where bu the engine is pulling you forward on tickover revs rather than slowing you down.
I think rather than the engine slowing the bike the bike will have to force the engine to slow down, thish will make it harder to lock the rear wheel as to do so the braking force will have to overcome the friction of the rubber and the force of the engine trying to turn the wheel.

I know for a fact that if you pull the clutch in too soon you will lock the rear easier so i allways left it to the last instant to pull it in to avoid locking the rear rather than to have the engine slow me down.
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proximity
Crazy Courier



Joined: 08 Oct 2004
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PostPosted: 10:59 - 09 Nov 2004    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cheers guys, thats what i thought, i use engine braking a lot but the reason i asked is like you say its easier to lock up with the clutch in (not that thats good) i guess thats just becuase you will have to lock the engine up with the clutch out.
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jonboy
Trackday Trickster



Joined: 02 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: 12:21 - 09 Nov 2004    Post subject: Reply with quote

zero wrote:
... engine breaking is your friend, ..


No, it's expensive and inconvenient.





(sorry.. Razz )
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NSR125-Kid-UK
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Joined: 03 May 2003
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PostPosted: 12:25 - 09 Nov 2004    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't be sorry he asked for it, as do a great many others Wink .

...Yeah leave your clutch out, but don't leave it too late before pulling it in. I managed to lock my rear and there was a worrying clunking noise from the transmission - no permenant damage but still worried me.
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stinkwheel
Bovine Proctologist



Joined: 12 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: 12:51 - 09 Nov 2004    Post subject: Reply with quote

NSR125-Kid-UK wrote:
I managed to lock my rear and there was a worrying clunking noise from the transmission - no permenant damage but still worried me.


Don't worry, it is just your swingarm chattering up and down and the now stationary chain slapping off the top of it.

I do it all the time on my supermoto, it will lock the rear without touching the back brake due to a combination of massive front-end dive and 660ccs of engine braking. You know you are braking REALLY hard when you get a 'THUMP' from the back end as you come to a complete halt. This is the back wheel hitting the road again Mr. Green .

Best achieved when you come to a halt next to a car at the lights, do it next to the windscreen and your head briefly appears in their line of sight as the front compresses fully and the rear lifts, look round, quick wave, then disappear backwards again as the forks unload. Watch the frantic swivelling of the drivers head as they try to see what the hell just happened.

It is not me, it is the bike that forces you to ride like a tw@ ..honest Rolling Eyes Wink
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Smoto Bob
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PostPosted: 14:15 - 09 Nov 2004    Post subject: bike Reply with quote

LEAVE THE CLUTCH OUT, reduces the chance of the rear locking(esp now its winter) and as they all say bikes with crappy brakes need all the engine braking they can get.

Guessing you havent done you emergancy stop on you test yet Wink
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mr.z
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PostPosted: 00:47 - 10 Nov 2004    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jonboy wrote:

No, it's expensive and inconvenient.

(sorry.. Razz )


You've never ridden a cg125 i'm guessing...

breaking in order of efficency

engine breaking - ever present.
boots - i'm horrificly serious.
brakes.

I think your geting going down the gears and engine breaking mixed up? your useing EB when you brake anyway unless you have the throttle pinned when your comeing into corners... going down the gears, works for me, bliping on downchanges makes it smooth and saves engine wear, done properly its not expensive in any way, haveing gears it inconvinent, but its all part of the fun.

It depends on the engine layout, capacity and loads of other stuff as to how effective it is, on a ford fiesta there is no such thing, on the cg it saved allot of trips into hedges i suspect 99% of drum braked bikes its the same case.

brake pads are cheeper than clutches and gear boxes, if you have good brakes use them!

Not all bikes on the road can stoppie on a tidleywink, sometimes the front and back break is just not enough to stop in a hurry, different bikes need different ways of handleing.
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Claud 14.7 to 1
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PostPosted: 01:50 - 10 Nov 2004    Post subject: Reply with quote

The bike is also a lot more stable if you brake with the clutch out .

Try you will see. Coasting on a bike is not advisable.
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mchaggis
World Chat Champion



Joined: 09 May 2004
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PostPosted: 09:12 - 10 Nov 2004    Post subject: Reply with quote

Claud 14.7 to 1 wrote:
The bike is also a lot more stable if you brake with the clutch out .

Try you will see. Coasting on a bike is not advisable.


Not that I would really recommend this, but going round corners with the clutch in is more than a little interesting. I had a nasty habit of pulling the clutch in every time I wanted to slow down, probably vaguely drilled into me doing CBT or something. The bike feels like it wants to run wide, accentuated by only using the brakes and losing even more turning.

Anyway, never have the clutch in unless you are changing gear or if you would stall it otherwise. Engine braking is your friend, get it right, you will hardly need to use the brakes at all until some blind cager jumps in front of you.
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