125 or 400 ?

[Method]

Hey,as some of you may know (or not as the case may be) im 17 and looking to take my full test in a few weeks, booking my theory later this week and course is available for me as soon as the theory is passed. upon completing my full test (fingers crossed!) i am unsure of wether to move up onto a 400 or perhaps stay on my 125... i was just wondering (as im not an expert on 2 strokes) what the engine life would be on a fully de-restricted 2002 model NSR 125rr. i dont want to de-restrict it to find it only lasts 4 months before blowing up, also which would be cheaper? bearing in mind im a mechanic myself and can do the de-restriction myself, in terms of insurance and re-sale value would it be worth it? or should i just go for the lovely cbr400?

[Demonic69]

400's are good. 600's are better. You'll find a decent 600 for less to buy and insure than 400's purley because the 400 market has been hit with a shitload of people in your position.
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Back on a Blade. Just feels so right.

[Rory]

Can't say I agree with you there - yes, the list / dealership price for a 400 is high, that's why you shoudn't buy one from a dealer if you're on a budget. You can get a cracking CBR400RR tri-arm for a grand if you look. As for insurance, why would a 600 cost less than a 400? (assuming we're talking sportsbikes).

Disclaimer: yes, I'm somewhat biased about 400s because I own one.
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My Old CBR400RR | Bike Oil FAQ | Petrol FAQ

[G]

I would maybe keep an eye out for a good bike.

Get some test rides, see what you like. Then wait for a bargain to come up.

[Demonic69]

Because my friend. 400's are less common, most are imports and parts are generally more expensive.
My 1990 GSXR750 was cheaper to insure than a VFR400. a CBR600 would be way cheaper still.
I had a 400, got bored and upgraded as soon as I could afford it.
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Back on a Blade. Just feels so right.

[Method]

sounds like its a cbr650 for me then =]

[Demonic69]

CBR600 mate. The 650 never really came about, and it was a twin.
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Back on a Blade. Just feels so right.

[skyline]

yea i went from a 50 to a 400 as it was cheaper than just getting a 125, but i sort of wish that i got something bigger than a 400 now

[DynaMight]

I went from a 125 > 400 and I never looked back even with both around 33BHP, Within hours I found the 400 much easier to ride and usable, I also found the handling was better too. I'd much prefer crusing around on a 400 @ 33BHP than thrashing a RS125 for your 23-28BHP, Plus the restrictions can fall out

This was like 3 years ago now when grey imports were instantly £300-500 more expensive but I paid £800 TPFT for my first year @ 18yrs old, Now my gf can ins a NC30 for £105 TPFT (She's 21 with 0NCB) this is compared to £500+ for a RS125 and £800+ for my 99 ZX6R.

As for peeps saying a 600 is cheaper to insure than a 400, This must had been a few years back when grey imports were more to insure, As I'd love to see a 18-21 yr old with 0 NCB ins a 600 for under £300 TPFT.

400 arent 160MPH monsters, So if straightline speed is your thing then I'd give a 400 the miss, If you enjoy corners then they'll be just as fun, if not more fun, than a 125/600 etc

[Rory]

It's actually pretty easy to get parts for the VFR400s and CBR400s, if you know where to go. The other sports 400s are more difficult though.
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My Old CBR400RR | Bike Oil FAQ | Petrol FAQ

[Demonic69]

Yeah, I know it's easy, but it'snot as easy as a CBR6, FZR6 etc.
____________________
Back on a Blade. Just feels so right.

[Irezumi aka Reuben]

Done a bit of research into the 400/600 thing and found that insuring a 400 will cost considerably less to insure than even a Hornet 600. Most 600's cost around £800 to insure for me (19yr old in high risk area), with later faired bikes (96-on) around £1k. A 400 will only cost about £500 though (maybe less if I rang around more).
400's are fast enough IMO and a bit different. Part's wont be a problem for most Honda's and the ZXR400.
Overall should be able to spend £2k tops on everything(insurance etc) for a 400, or add a grand for a 600.

For your question, if you can live with the speed of the 125 keep it. If you want a bit more (a fair bit more) then get a 400. I'd go for the 400, and indeed will do ASAP.
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Pictorgraphicalfantastical

[Method]

thanks a lot guys, your comments have been greatly usefull! ill keep you posted on what i decide, thinking about it i dont realy think i could keep the 125 realy. i mean it struggles getting down to cambridge (like a 40mile journey) so yea =] thanks guys you've been most helpfull. as i'm a speedway and grasstrack racer by nature im a bit behind on road bikes so every bit of information is always welcome =] handling a 400 wouldnt be a problem as im chucking 500cc singles running on methanol sidewards round corners on a surface as stable as a single legged table on an ice rink

[Demonic69]

[EuropeanNC30R...]

Getting parts for a VFR400 is just as easy as parts for a CBR600, just walk into any Honda (or independant) dealer and ask for the part. There's also loads of parts available second-hand, have a quick peek on ebay or look at the for sale section of www.400greybike.co.uk if you're interested.

Also for me insurance was considerably cheaper than a 600, you must have paid a lot for the RF400

[Villers]

when I changed to my CBR600 the cost to change the insurance was cheaper than it would have been to go to a VFR400, just the way it worked out with the insurers. On the phone though the guy said that if I was to start the policies fresh I could insure the 400 for less than £300 and the CBR600 would cost in excess of £450. Im 22 with zero no claims and a full licence.

Didnt the guy who started the thread say he was 17? In that case wont he have to wait until he's 21 to derestrict past 33bhp? This may be naive but wouldnt a 33bhp 400 have a bit more go in it than the 33bhp 600 (because of weight etc)? And like someone said it would be far better to run a restricted 400 than rag the @rse out of a 125. Had this been a direct access case I would have reccomended the 600 as perhaps for the thrill seeker the four would have got a little tedious (the 600 is already feeling lumpy to me)!

[18aprilia]

nah mate you wanna get yourself a 125, you wont ever look back, i swear that to you. 400 is boring 125 is where its at i promise, rs125 is wicked get one of them and kit it out.
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Supra King

[EuropeanNC30R...]

[Villers]

Was forced to ride the RS while the CBR600 was out of whack and I dont know how I ever put up with it

[cagiva gezzer]

[Villers]

[quote="cagiva gezzer
I ride a 125 because i can't justify the huge insurance costs that a 600 has. Insure a 125 for £100 a year, or a 600 for £600-1000 a year. I can't afford to pour that money down the drain each year. An YES, it is pouring it down the drain. For four years i've paid insurance premiums from £100 to £350 and never had to contact them at all for any reason.

.[/quote]

Read that bit about pouring money down the drain over and over trying to get my head round it. Are you saying that anyone who pays 600 to insure a sports 600 is wasting their money, or it would be a waste of your money for that? Im jumping the gun here and think your meaning the former, in which case (on the behalf of a hell of a lot of people) I have to disagree with you. Im sorry for going off topic here before I start. Im 22, all my driving life Ive payed through the nose so I dont have to drive a 1 litre granny car that gets me laughed at and wherever Im going to late. Now Ive got the passion of bikes and after six months of riding my 125 (and paying a pretty handsome insurance premium for the priviledge) I feel like I want some power to play with. I want to be able to go touring, I want to be able to overtake those six cars and the truck that have been slowing me down on the dual carriage way, I want to ride through town minding my own business without chavs going 'meeeeeeeeeeeeeeee' as I go past. I want to have fun, I enjoy going fast, so that is fun to me. I enjoy having a bike and get a lot of satisfaction from it. Why would I be wasting my money on an insurance premium if it gives me such enjoyment?

[cagiva gezzer]

From my experience of insurance its a waste of money. A quick add up suggests that i've paid £1,000 into the insurance industry and i havent made a single claim. Now, for me that £1,000 is money that i no longer have. All i have is 5yr NCB and the insurance company has all that money for an hour or so worth of phone calls.

Its a stupid way of looking at it i know, but i would rather pay the insurance industry £100 to be able to get back and forwards to work, see my friends & go shopping than pay £1,000 to have the possibility of doing it 60mph faster on a larger capacity bike.

I understand insurance is necessary

Everyones situation is different. I'm a student, i don't see my bike for ~70% of the year. So, the way i look at it is.

I pay £100 insurance.
I have the possibility of riding my bike for 115 days a year.
I am 226 miles away from my bike for 250 days of the year.
Every day i pay 30pence for insurance. 250 out of 365 days i can't ride my bike. So, i pay ~£75 for my bike to sit in my garage.

If i wanted to be cool/ be fast/ fit in/ match my leathers with my bike i would pay £1000 insurance.
I have the possibility of riding my bike for 115 days a year.
I am 226 miles away from my bike for 250 days of the year.
Every day i pay £3 for insurance. 250 out of 365 days i can't ride my bike. So, i pay ~£750 for my bike to sit in my garage.

Thats my situation. I am happy (most of the time) with the performance a 125 gives. Maybe because of my £8K student debt i will face next year i'm more concerned about my financial situation or maybe i'm jealous of people who can afford to pay silly money to insure large capacity bikes.
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"because one stroke isnt enough and four strokes waste two"

[kasandrich]

Two things that are rarely taken into consideration.

Firstly, as well as the 33BHP limit, there is a power/weight ratio limit.....0.16kw/kg

This means for a 33BHP bike (25kw), the bike must weigh at least 157kg if it produces the full 33bhp. I'm not sure but I think some of the little 125's like the Mito or Aprilia come in under that weight don't they? that breaks the power to weight ratio rule.

Secondly, it is not the power BHP figure alone that determines a bikes performance, the torque is important, and the flatness of the torque curve or the range that you get the torque over will affect the ridability. So say a low tune 500 restricted to 33BHP, may have the same power figure (33BHP) as a 125 2 stroke, but instead of having a power band at some silly high number of revs, it will pull cleanly from the 1100rpm tickover, and have more power available through the rev range. Making it much more ridable, and it will be more reliable.
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Richard

CBR1000FM

[Demonic69]

I looked at all 400's VS the same year 600 and found if you look around the 600's will generally be cheaper, it's just finding a place that does cheap 600 insurance. I suppose it may have changed in the past 2 years though. A 1993 CBR6 was cheaper for me to insure than any of the 400's.
____________________
Back on a Blade. Just feels so right.

[kasandrich]

The only 125 I've ridden is a Yamaha SR125 school bike, and I hated every minute of it and if tha were all that was available to me I'd give up bikes today.

When I got off of that onto an ER5, it made it all worth while.
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Richard

CBR1000FM