33bhp: Derestricted 125 vs restricted 250

[Nath]

Hi, i noticed there was already a question about bikes for the 33bhp limit, but i thought this was more specific, so best to create my own thread

I'm looking to get a bike before the end of the year, having no license presently. I'm planning to do one of those intense-courses, to get a license-proper, rather than ride around on an L Plate. As i'm 18, i'm going to be stuck with the 33bhp restriction, which bodes the question of what bike to get.

I'm after something sporty, and some searching on the web has given me a few ideas. Basically, as far as i can see, it's either a fullpower 125, or a 250 with a restrictor. I would rather go for the bigger bike, as: i'm going to be shelling out for the full license, i would rather have a "proper" bike as opposed to a learner's 125, and i also wonder whether the 250s would be any better for my height(i'm 6ft).

As far as i can work out from the web, the fast 125s(RG, NSR etc) all have around 25bhp without the restrictors. However, i have some queries:
Are 2-stroke 125s going to be very noisy(in the bad whiney sense)?
Are they going to be that reliable?
Will they feel strained when cuising on a dual carrage way?
Does having them unrestriced do anything really bad to insurance premiums?

The other option, is getting a 250, and having it restricted down to 33bhp. The options i know of are the NSR, RG, and Ninja. Again, questions:
Will restricting one affect performance that much?
Are restrictors a good option(IE, do they accurately limit hp, or could they lop loads off?)
Will a sporty 250 be much more to insure?
Will i be able to handle a 250, as a first bike? (I'm not talking about going stupidly fast).
Are they that easy to get hold of?(I would be relying on my dad to come with me, so can't travel outside easy-mids too easyily)

Afaik, the Ninja 250 is a 4 stroke. Will it perform any/much worse than the 2 stroke 250s(when restricted)? On the other hand, would it offer more reliability/better sound/other advantages?


I'm no speed freak, so my preferance for a 250 is more to do with size/maturity, than any aspirations of bombing along, racing sports cars etc. I'm looking to buy 2nd hand(of course? :p), and would really consider any age from early ninties onwards. Moneywise, i'm not on a huge budget... By the time i get round to doing this, i should have around £2 - 2.5k, which is for intense-course, bike, gear(nothing flashy) and insurance. Insurance would be for good area of Nottingham(is there one?) with a garage.

Not knowing a huge deal about bikes, i like the look of the Ninja 250, but am really open to suggestions. Should i be looking more closely at the 125s? If anyone has specific suggests, could they also advise what kind of milage would i be looking at to still have plenty of use, and how easy is it to get one that hasn't been thrashed.

Note also, i would be looking to buy around October-time. Whilst this might not be ideal for riding a smaller sporty bike, i'm not intending to use it to get to town/college, so i would picking my days to ride it out. Will the time of year affect availability/prices that much?

Cheers, Nath.

[MarJay]

I respect you, sir, for going with a 250. A number of people on here have gone for sports 600's at 18, which is undoubtedly silly.

As far as 250s go, the ninja you mention, I assume is a ZXR250. This won't be too good at 33bhp because the engine will have not a lot of tourque low down to make up for the lack of bhp. They are also quite rare and difficult to get parts for. As far as a suzuki RG or RGV250 goes, they are two strokes and so naturally more powerful than the four stroke ZXR. 2 strokes are also a LOT more unreliable, and the RGV in particular has a nasty habit of eating its own engine when the powervalves fall into the cylinder! If you can find an NSR 250 I will shake you by the hand, as they are rarer than hens teeth!

Personally, I would recommend a nice sports 400. They respond well to restriction and don't make a crazy amount of power to scare you after the 'two years' at 33bhp. Being that you are of somewhat taller stature I would suggest that the larger Kawasaki ZXR 400 would suit you well. Other good sports 400's include the Honda VFR400 NC30, and Honda CBR400 tri arm or Gull arm.

Both Yamaha and Suzuki both made sports 400s, but the Suzuki GSXR400 is uncomfortable and rarer than the others I mentioned, and the Yamaha FZR400 is fragile and rare too.

As I said, go with a ZXR400 and you will be happy (and learn shed loads about cornering and general riding! )

HTH
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Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another.

[Nath]

Hi, cheers for the advice. I had previously ignored the option of restricting a bigger bike, as i would have thought it would kill performance, and because my dad would seriously disapprove..

However, i suppose the torque argument does make sense, and i do fancy having something that's as far away from a scally 50ccer as possible


One prob though, the prices! Eeeek!! If they're accurate(and they sound about right), i think i might want to start getting some serious overtime in at work before i go back to college...

I plan to drop in on a few dealers, and see what they say(don't think i'd buy from one though), and also pick up some bike/sales mags. However any (less pricey :p)suggestions would be welcome.

Ps, that price guide lists the GPX250R. Hadn't come accross that on the net before. Would that go down alongside the NSR for being too rare, or next to the RG for unreliability?

[Ste]

125 Stuff
Noise of a two stroke is really a love it or hate it, and proper bikes which are two strokes I don't dislike the sound and would happily have a big bike which was a two stroke. Not as loud I don't believe as a four stroke either.
They do need work done on them, but if you don't bother to do the work when it is meant to be done it will break on you, jus like any bike will. They do need more work done on them than a four stroke though.
They will cruise happily on dual carriageways and motorways, but they don't get that many miles between how often it needs work done on it.
Not at all really.

250 Stuff
It will affect it yes, but not too much. THe bikes which work best restricted are those which are closest to being 33bhp so that includes a 250.
They are the only option really, and yes they can knock lots off, they knock however much is needed to bring it down to 33bhp off.
They will be more, but not too much more than a 125cc bike. Get yourself some online quotes from somewhere like Click Quote but you'll be able to get the insurance much cheaper over the phone and ringing around, but online ones are useful for comparison purposes.
Yes, assuming you are sensible and ride in a sensible type of way. And you're not able to go stupidly fast due to the 33bhp restrictors.
Yes there are ones to choose from, have a look in Bike Trader and also keep an eye on eBay.

I would say that a four stroke two fifty will be better than a two stroke one when it is restricted. It will be better as the insurance will not cost as much as they charge you basically without taking into account the fact the bike is 33bhp, so the four stroke one will be cheaper and will run better at 33bhp.

Milage isn't that much of an issue, as you can kill a bike with low milage if you don't bother to look after it, but they can go on for ages if you look after them well, so just see the service history and how the bike is.

Buying in summer time the prices are higher as people want to be on a bike then, and it is lower the worse the weather is basically. I would reckon there might well be more on the market at October time of year, as people have used them for the summer and now want to sell it rather than have it sitting in the garage over the winter.

You might also want to consider some of the bikes which are 33bhp normally, as you don't have to worry about a restrictor kit for them. Off the top of my head I can think of two, the Honda Bros 400, and the Suzuki Goose 350.

[Kickstart]

Hi

With around 33hp the top speed will be about the same for any sporting bike.

The 2 stroke 250cc bikes will probably not appreciate being restricted.

The GPX250 might be you best bet (250cc parallel twin 4 stroke), and they are barely over 33hp anyway.

All the best

Keith
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Traxpics, track day and racing photographs - Bimota Forum - Bike performance / thrust graphs for choosing gearing

[The Tot]

Rex Judd's have an NSR250 for 1400 quid... I don't know whether you would trust them enough to purchase... View thread regarding them..

https://www.bikechatforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=28983

good luck with your 250's.... Don't bother with the RS 250 btw.
____________________
The Tot 2019 Z1000SX - 2007 R1
Never argue with autism

[loply]

I would recommend getting a 400 four-stroke, such as:

ZXR400
VFR400
CBR400
FZR400
GSXR400

More powerfull than 125s, the same price.

Restricted to 33bhp might not be as nice as a 125 but you can fully or partially derestrict it.

[Ste]

[Claud 14.7 to 1]

Sports 400 definitly, easy to restrict (responds well) and when you take the restrictors out, you have a nice ammount of power. Most importantly, they are very forgiving. You can open them up fully, and not worry about it flipping over. Its great.

250 4 stokes, need reving really hard, and go "no-where"...

sports 400s handle very nice, looks nice as well.

Sport 400 is what you need, def.

[Ste]

All bike are the same to restrict. Take it to a authorised shop and pay them money. Job done.

[tatters]

l would recommend staying away from 250cc+ two-strokes, too expensive to run mines all ready costing me £500 for a re-build (doing it my self) and fuel use is mad 20-40mpg mines got a terrible range of 60 miles , but they are really just for a sunday/track fun bike.


get your self a 400 four-stroke and enjoy
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[Nath]

Well, thank you for the advice. I got an application form for my provisional today, and will post it tomorrow. I was hoping to take a look in a few dealerships, but didn't get chance, but that's something i intend to do over the next few weeks, as well as get a bike sales mag(is Autotrader the best bet?).

I will deffinately look at some 400s, but i haven't completely been dettered from the 250s. I don't think i fancy a 2 stroke, but the ZXR250 does look quite suitable as a first bike. I also have to bare in mind that my Dad will probably be very dissaproving when i mention to him that i'm considering a 400. When i brought up getting a 250, he tried to persuade me that i'd be best with a 125 2-stroke... Whilst he wouldn't stop me doing what i want(it's my cash, but his house/garage), having his help would make things alot easier. I'm thinking in terms of viewing bikes, and testriding them(would you trust a newley passed 18yr old with no experience?).


Hopefully in a few months time, i'll be spending some of my Sunday Afternoons in Matlock Bath

[Kickstart]

[scottc1088]

why not just get a 250 restricted and derestrict it ??

[Dom_]

A 2 stroke isnt UN-reliable its just a lot less reliable than a 4 stroke, if you know what your doing and understand how a 2 stroke engine works you can make your bike last a whole lot longer.

What about an RS250?

[dibbster]

A 400 is not necessarily more powerful than a 250, for example the RS250 makes (a claimed) 70 horses and the ZXR400 (a claimed) 64 horses. I wouldn't recommend the RS250 as a first bike as it has a narrow powerband. Have a look on here for a good idea of prices.
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[Nath]

Well, having a look through MCN has confirmed that there's fsck all chance of getting a decent ZXR250 realistically...

However, the sports 400s aren't so out of my price range as i initially thought. My dad though has given me another option. He reckons a good 500 would be easy to ride, have enough grunt to enjoy riding it, and be practical(cheaper insurance, more reliable, less likely to have been raced/thrashed). Whilst some of you speed freaks might laugh at me being able to consider say both a ZXR400 and a CB500 for the same purpose, i think for once my dad is talking sense.

I guess also, if i did get bored with a more conservative bike, i could always get a 400 for the summer(next year). I guess i have a while to make my mind up though, so i'll just keep an eye on the market and see what i can get for my money

[NY_Sniper]

i am thinking of getting one but it will need restricting to 33bhp and i was told that restricting larger bikes can cause major handling and fueling problems would any one know if the ZXR400 suffers badly from such restrictions ???????

[MarJay]

[iCraig]

[Frost]

I've for most insurance companies base their premiums off the capacity of the bike.
I was quoted well over £1000 for a CB500, and over 600 for a 400 sports bike. In the end i got insurance on a 250 that was just as quick as the others for £215 TPFT with 0 NCB.

Restricting a 250 = bad idea, high capacity 2 strokes drink fuel like its going out of fashion and are about as reliable as something built int he soviet union. Get through a full year without something eating itself and you've been lucky.

The ZX4 restricts very nicely, though personally i wouldnt bother

[Barker-CBR 600]

Both will be pretty gutless.

As one of those silly 18 year old who got a sports 600 (who is actually still 17 ) i would say its not above any confident cautious rider to get a sports 400 or 600. Long as you dont ride like a d**k and have the sense to look after it.

I went straight from cruiser 'slow as hell' 125 to a restricted 99 CBR600 and loved it AND felt i could handle it. After two years more experiance i'll take the restrictor kit out and get the full 96BHP.

Trouble is buy a 250, restrict it and when it comes two year you will derestrict it and want to upgrade again, as for a 125 you simply wont have anything to upgrade to.

If you want to keep something for a good amount of time, and can be sensible, look after it and generally become a serious biker look at the 400's - 600's if you can afford it.

If you cant afford it then take others advice.
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'Is this a rhetorical question?'

[dodsi]

I ride a restricted 500 (kwakasakiness ER-5)

and i can say its a great bike to ride, its still plenty fast enough (esp for someone who like me can be throttle happy)

its a very forgiving bike and easy to ride for those who are not experianced!

plus insurance and running costs + servicing is cheap!

after the 2 years is up i can de-restrict but will probably get a 600