Tomahawk Tires [Re: CBR_Rob]
#824032 - 11/27/04 07:05 AM Edit Reply Quote Quick Reply
I asked the makers:
There is a company now who are selling remanufactured tires for motorcycles. This has been the subject of much debate: Some people insist they're as good as a new tire, and others point out the bits and pieces of remanufactured truck tires all over the highways as proof that retreads are *not* a good as a new tire.
Given the high liklihood of a failure in a motorcycle tire causing a crash and potential injury, what is Dunlop's opinion regarding remanufactured tires, the use of Dunlop carcasses in the remanufacturing process, and whether the remanufacturing process is safe for usage in a performance motorcycle?
Also, any general information on the remanufacturing process, and why it's good/bad would also be a wonderful help.
Thank you for your kind consideration.
Dunlop said:
Scott,
Thank you for taking the time to contact us regarding the remanufacturing (retreading) of Dunlop motorcycle tires. Never use a Dunlop motorcycle tire that has been retreaded (recapped). Such tires are remanufactured products for which Dunlop's new tire testing and certifications are voided. Dunlop motorcycle tires are not designed for retreadability (recappability), nor will Dunlop be responsible for any retread process or performance.
Also, never use a Dunlop motorcycle tire that has been modified by the removal or addition of any material; by tread grooving, siping, grinding or contouring; nor with any inlays or raised features (e.g. lettering) of any kind. Such tires are remanufactured products for which Dunlop's new testing and certificates are voided.
"Dunlop Tire"
To: Allan Wittmeyer/NA/GDYR@GOODYEAR
cc:
Subject: Dunlop Tire Contact Form Submission 01/05/04 05:28 PM Please respond to Scotteq
Bridgestone said basically the same thing. Cooper/Avon actually called me and the engineer said he wouldn't touch them. Michelin and Pirelli didn't respond.
MCN Reviewed them: "I would rather ride on the rims" (Gixxer 1K)
The street tires were at least adequate on a 600. Download the report and read it yourself:
https://www.nesba.com/Tire_Guide.pdf
In no case, and in no category were the remoulds as good as a new tire.
Tomohawk is also trying to sponsor a racer:
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headed out for my first session and found the tires to be quite odd feeling. They are quite a bit heavier than a normal DOT race tire, and I also noticed that the rear tire was quite a bit rounder than the Dunlops I was accustomed to. I ran a very cautious first lap at around 2:03, and then started to pick up the pace just a little bit. They felt a bit slick to me, but I remembered that there is a mold-release agent on the tires that needed to be worn off. Just as I got about half way through the second lap, the skies opened up on the back part of the track. I tip-toed back to the pits and waited for the rain to stop. Two sessions later the track was dry and I headed back out. I was still having trouble getting any kind of comfort level, and the tires seemed a bit slippery to me when I got to the side of them. I turned a couple of 1:57-1:58 laps on them and then picked up the pace just a bit more, keeping in mind that the colored tires are really a street-based tire. I wanted to get my knees down on the ground for them to get some good pictures. The first time I carried any kind of real speed into turns 10 and 10A, I lost the front just at the second part of the double apex. The bike was out from under me before I could react and I was bouncing down the pavement.
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He then tried the grippier "Sprint" (race) compound:
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I headed out, obviously a bit paranoid, on the Sprint tires. They seemed to have pretty good grip, and I dropped my times quickly to the 1:54 range. That was still about 7-8 seconds off the pace I had run at Moroso in August, but I was determined to give the Tomahawks a shot. By the third or fourth lap, I was gradually picking up the pace. As I tipped it into the long right hander, turn 12, the bike began to vibrate badly and basically bounced it’s way through the entire corner.
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Hmmmm.. Bad vibrations and wonky handling, while running over SEVEN SECONDS OFF THE PACE.
Since he didn't have any money for a new set of tires, he bought a set of Dunlop SCRUBS (already been used...),
and goes from 1:54's to 1:46's. That's EIGHT SECONDS FASTER ON USED DUNLOPS.
The whole page:
https://mightyducracing.com/moroso9-21results.html
So, we have Dunlop, Bridgestone, and Avon Tire ENGINEERS saying they're garbage, followed by a racer who couldn't even run them within EIGHT seconds per lap compared to what he got from a set of freakin' TAKE-OFF's.
So until I have definitive PROOF that these are as good as a pair of new tires, you will NEVER EVER EVER find a set of remoulds on my bike.
Sorry fellas, but Garbage is Garbage. And there's a very good reason that momma taught us not to pick stuff out of trash bins.
Yeah, yeah yeah - If you want to putt around with some funny looking colored junk on your bike trying to convince yourself that those people staring are actually envious, knock yourself out. At least they won't blow up on you....
By the way - If you don't happen to think that 8 seconds is significant: take a reasonable average speed of 90 MPH, that's about 130 feet each second. So you're falling 1,040 feet behind your equally skilled and equipped buddy every lap. Multiply that by 15 laps = 15,600 feet (about 3 miles), an average track length of 1.5 miles, and your buddy is trying to see if he can put you TWO LAPS DOWN before the race ends.
If you didn't crash, like our racer friend did.
Up the average to 100MPH, he's half the way around the track trying to put you THREE laps down...
You wouldn't even make the grid running those comparative times. AMA's rule is 110%, which is +6 seconds for every 60 seconds from what the front runners are doing. Our guy was EIGHT off - 25% slower then the bare minimum. So, even if you slapped these tires on Mat Mladin's bike, he would go from pole position to backmarker instantly.
Just so you don't think I'm *entirely* negative on these: If you don't ride hard, and want something cheap so the pavement doesn't scrape up your rims as you ride around, then by all means, buy the half price black ones. Or if you ride constantly, like you're a motorcycle courier, and tires are a significant expense. Or if you just don't care.
Of course, you could just buy sport-touring tires, like a Bridgestone BT-020 or Metzeler Z6 Roadtec and get 10K miles per set with proven grip, proven foul weather performance, and proven design. More outlay up front, yet still cheaper than full on sport rubber, with over twice the lifespan and 3/4rs the outright grip.
My $2.02...
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I thought coloured tyres were weaker than black tyres?
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