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Crash- Helmet examination

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jamie192
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Joined: 18 Oct 2004
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PostPosted: 12:05 - 29 Dec 2004    Post subject: Crash- Helmet examination Reply with quote

My sister hit an ice patch on her bike today on her gn 125, she was going over a humped back bridge and going 30 mph the correct speed limit, shes a bit of a worry when shes on her bike shes never hit 60 before even on national speed limits. Anyways back to my point, she hit her head with her helmet which has never been dropped or been in a crash before and was brand new about 3 months ago. She only slid off her bike the bike landed on her leg and she bumped her head on the road.
Her helmet had split, my friend who has had 3 or 4 crashes said that at a 30 mph slide off a helmet should of cracked like that because he came off at 50 mph was flipped off his bake and landed on his head and it didnt crack just scuffed.

How true is this, or could it be it was unlucky that it broke?

It was a FM helmet,she has to get a new one but quite cheap as shes having to pay for repairs on the bike, any cheap makes which dont break so easily?

Sorry for the long post and thanks for looking.

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jay12329
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PostPosted: 12:43 - 29 Dec 2004    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cheap or not all lida are designed for one use only. Even if it doesnt split it should never be used again. When i came off my bike i dont think i hit my head, and there were no scuffs on the the outside of the lid but i still replaced it.
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MarJay
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PostPosted: 12:54 - 29 Dec 2004    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whatever the state of the helmet now it probably saved your sisters life.

I would take what your mate said with a pinch of salt, because it does depend on the specific crash. Even if the helmet /looked/ unscathed I would have thought that it was useless to use now. Personally I wouldn't take the risk. If I had had a crash where I had hit my head then I would change the helmet. No ifs or buts.

Crash helmets work in the same way that crumple zones do in cars. The polystyrene inside compresses under impact, and the hard shell is there to keep all of the polystyrene pieces in place so that your head is protected, and also to help prevent injury from solid objects puncturing the lid. If the helmet split during an impact at 30mph... don't use that make of lid again!

Take my advice, get her to buy a decent lid, and get your mate to throw his 50mph crash lid straight in the dustbin.

Karma
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jamie192
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PostPosted: 13:04 - 29 Dec 2004    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for your replys, she doesn't plan on using it again, im getting my friend over to ride it back for her and then we will start working to fix it.

Shes just annoyed because of the money an shes starting to loose interest and is now thinking of selling it.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 13:10 - 29 Dec 2004    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep, agree with all the above. The helmet broke instead of her head. Which is what it is supposed to do. Any sort of hard impact is an indication for replacing the lid. I believe some of the more expensive makes offer an inspection service where they check the helmet for damage by x-ray after a crash (arai?) and report back to you.

I replaced my shoei lid after I highsided even though I am pretty sure I never hit my head. Thing is, I am not absolutley certain I didn't, there is no obvious damage to the lid but I was doing 70mph when I came off.
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streetfighter
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PostPosted: 15:48 - 29 Dec 2004    Post subject: Reply with quote

I crashed wearing an OGK aeroblade, £220 helmet.
The chin bar broke and stabbed me in the chin, but the shell saved my bonce.
I also crashed wearing a £50 Nitro helmet (can you see a pattern forming here?). Same sort of speed 50ish, and the Nitro held together better.
My point? All helmets are designed to withstand ONE impact. If they have a ACU gold sticker they are the best you can get. This is where all the Arai and Shoei wearers start snarling!
Helmets are mainly about FIT. A £350 Arai is no good if it doesn't fit properly, but a £50 Nitro will be.
You don't need to spend huge sums on helmets as long as they fit properly, carry an ACU gold sticker, are less than 3 years old (a racing thing that is a good benchmark for the road), and look good.
I'm gonna get slated for this, but I have been there many times, in lids from £400 Arai's to £50 Nitros, and they've all done the job perfectly by following the simple rules above.
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Hex
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PostPosted: 17:34 - 29 Dec 2004    Post subject: Reply with quote

MarJay wrote:
If the helmet split during an impact at 30mph... don't use that make of lid again!


I have to ask why you've said that Mark.

After all most helmets have a seam along the middle and we have no idea how hard her head came down etc. If the pressure hit it at the right point there is no reason that the seam giving up was a problem at all, for all we know it could of happened exactly the same on a £400 lid or a £50 lid.

Just my 2 Penny Coin worth.

Hope your sis is all alright though.
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jamie192
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PostPosted: 17:51 - 29 Dec 2004    Post subject: Reply with quote

After examining the helmet and the bike we figured out that she must of , dunno what its called, the front slipped out to the left and she fell to the right with the bike and her shoulder smashed her mirror, lowside? Anyways the helmet is not as bad as she described it, she told me it had cracked and u can see the next layer. To me it looks pretty standard how it actually is, and my friend squashed it about a bit to see if it was broken and it didnt seem to be. if i can get my cam working ill post sum pics.

Thanks for all your replys.
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Craggles
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PostPosted: 18:25 - 29 Dec 2004    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
shes a bit of a worry when shes on her bike shes never hit 60 before even on national speed limits.


I think thats more to do with the bike than the rider! I never managed to get my GN125 beyond about 55 without help from a hill!

Just tell her to keep her head up and carry on riding! Not the best time of year for a complete newbie, but its worth keeping at it!

Craig
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MarJay
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PostPosted: 00:53 - 30 Dec 2004    Post subject: Reply with quote

MarJay wrote:
If the helmet split during an impact at 30mph... don't use that make of lid again!

Hex wrote:
I have to ask why you've said that Mark.


Ok here goes.

If I hit ice at 30mph and banged my head- fair enough the helmet saved my bonce.

However if I crashed at 60mph and the lid split on the first impact, what happens if I bounce or hit a bit of road furniture? Afaik shells are supposed to at least give a moderate amount of structural cohesion for just such an occasion.

If I was bouncing down the road at 70+ I'd rather be in my Roof which stayed in one piece when I crashed in it, rather than loads of pieces of incoherent polystyrene and no shell...
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Last edited by MarJay on 11:47 - 30 Dec 2004; edited 1 time in total
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tgabber
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PostPosted: 02:54 - 30 Dec 2004    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hex wrote:
After all most helmets have a seam along the middle


As I understand it, what appears to be a 'seam' down the middle on some helmets is not, but simply a slight ridge left in the outer shell by a seam in the mold.

With improved manufacturing techniques, less and less modern helmets show this slight ridge.
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Kickstart
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PostPosted: 13:21 - 30 Dec 2004    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

It was polycarbonate helmets that normally had a seam, but cannot remember seeing one on a grp lid.

Helmets are designed for a single hard impact. They might well work a 2nd tme if you are lucky enough to have the impact on a seperate area of the helmet, but would you really want to take that risk?

If it has split then it is scrap. However I would not expect any helmet to split in a minor bump like that. I would be inclined to write to the maker about it.

Years ago with a Nava polycarbonate lid I crashed my H100. First thing to hit the ground was my helmet at about 45mph. There were no external marks on the helmet at all.

All the best

Keith
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NSR125-Kid-UK
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PostPosted: 19:51 - 30 Dec 2004    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's your life mate.
I had the same lid on for my first three crashes - only touched my head down on the third, so I've retired it. It is hwoever still in use. I gave it to a mate after his lid was nicked, and he's since got a new lid and given mine to a scooter boi Confused .

I crashed a few weeks back in my AGV X-R2 Rossi replica, my head didn't touch down which is just as well, cos I don't fancy paying 250 quid for another one!
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nick.h
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PostPosted: 19:57 - 30 Dec 2004    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jammy-G wrote:
I would love to change my helmet everytime I dropped it or came off but for most people this is impossible. If I did everything the *proper* way I would be on about my 8th lid by now, how the hell could I afford that?


By buying cheaper helmets? or at least ones that are on sale.
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superchoward
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PostPosted: 20:23 - 30 Dec 2004    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am with Jammy G on this one.
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JodieWodie
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PostPosted: 20:40 - 30 Dec 2004    Post subject: Reply with quote

On my off I was only doing about 20-30...my chin smacked on the floor ... the helmet slid along the floor..and the chin and visor (minorly) of it got scraped.

In an ideal world I would have bought a new helmet.
But...I haven't.

I would not expect a helmet at 30mph to CRACK. Thumbs Down

My helmet is a Shark one..not great...but fits comfortably and feels sturdy.
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superchoward
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PostPosted: 21:22 - 30 Dec 2004    Post subject: Reply with quote

My helmet was Shark tooI would also of bought a new one preferably, the clip where the visor clips onto helmet came off in one piece and i will try and fix this. I have had the helmet for 4 months and cannot afford to pay for a new one. This cost £120 (which is a small price to pay for my life i realise) that is far too much to pay again. I was only going 10-15 mph at the time so i hope it shouldnt of done much to the helmet.

Chris
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streetfighter
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PostPosted: 23:37 - 30 Dec 2004    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm amazed that so many of you value your life so little. Shocked

Do you wash condoms out as well, they are all designed for one use. In the case of a helmet, one crash.

When your helmet hits something the liner deforms, that's how it's designed. If you hit your head again in the same place the protection is far less.

I know it's money and it's hard earned, but you can't spend it if you ain't here. Confused

I said before, if a helmet has a ACU gold sticker it's top kit. And the assumption that "cheap" helmets are horrible is a very crass, immature statement. I have worn Nitro helmets for a whole seasons racing, the dearest one being £80, the cheapest £45. I'm not on their payroll, but I am singing their praises. They are good, well equipped helmets, some with removeable linings.
I've also worn a Suomy. A helmet that costs over £200 and just didn't fit, and felt "horrible".

It's your funeral, maybe quite literally, so divert some cash from elsewhere to save yer bonce. Very Happy Wink
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jamie192
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PostPosted: 01:24 - 31 Dec 2004    Post subject: Reply with quote

Firstly in reply to Craggles post, hers can do 65, my friend rode it to her cbt and he rides hard and full throttle all the way, it can get there maybe its not true but she sticks at about 40.

She doesnt want to ride with that helmet and doesnt intend to, she is going to burrow one off a friend for now then buy a new one as soon as shes got the money.

Thanks for all your replys!!
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mchaggis
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PostPosted: 02:08 - 31 Dec 2004    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can get a new helmet for as little as £30. It is a bit of a dilemma though, isn't it? The only accident I've had where my head has touched down, I was unconcious for more than a little while, and the helmet was obviously knackered. For a crash at 25-30 or so mph, the outside was badly scraped and the polystyrene was compressed and cracked.

The rest of the offs I've had, I've made a concious effort to keep my head off the ground, especially since I got the AGV V-Flyer and spent more than I probably wanted to on it.

Would I buy another helmet without an impact from which I wasn't in a condition to ride immediately afterwards? Probably not.
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grantl
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PostPosted: 04:52 - 31 Dec 2004    Post subject: Reply with quote

nitro saved my head
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True Blue
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PostPosted: 12:08 - 31 Dec 2004    Post subject: Reply with quote

streetfighter wrote:
I'm amazed that so many of you value your life so little. Shocked

Do you wash condoms out as well


It's a bit of a sweeping statement to say toss every lid after every crash. When I came off my bike I slid along on my arse for about 15 metres then on stopping my head hit down. I think there would have been more damaged had I dropped the thing half a metre to the floor. Of course shops and manufacturers are going to tell you to replace it. Why wouldn't they? I think it was MCN that done a test on lids a while back. They dropped one from several heights onto concrete. The highest I'm sure was about 5 metres, and then tested them. All of them were still well within the safety limits.

If you drop your lid I would say that you should decide weather to replace it based on the how bad you think it is. Not just a case of drop it - replace it.
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NSR125-Kid-UK
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PostPosted: 12:45 - 31 Dec 2004    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nitro saved my head too Smile.
But compared to my AGV my Nitro lid is still shit Razz.
Heavy and uncomfortable I think, but it did its job Smile.
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