250cc 4-stroke sportsbike

[Milo]

We need a 250cc 4-stroke sports bike in the UK.
Fair enough the market won't be huge - not for learners and people will want larger comfier bikes after passing their test but it'd be a great scratcher.
I'm sure they could reliably get 25bhp out of a single or 40 out of a twin if they tried hard enough, and in a 140-160kg frame it would feel like a lot more!

Any thoughts on this?

Maybe there's already one and I just don't know about it...
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Shaft drives rule.

[Motkram]

[Jrod]

https://i3.ebayimg.com/02/i/03/ba/89/49_1_b.JPG


ZXR 250 for sale on ebay now.

[Marc_Buck]

Cbr250, ZXR250, Fzr250, Gsxr250 all about in the uk, rare but still there.

I think they make about 35 bhp, may be wrong.
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94 fzr600r

[Frost]

CBR makes 42. But then it is an in line 4

Yes we do need bikes that handle well. At the moment its a choice betwean an aging 2 stroke 250, or an aging imported 4 stroke 250.

The problem is that it's all about racing. 400/250 racing is dying out that just leaves 125, 600, 1000. yes 125 race bikes go like shit off a stick, but the road going 125's are just pants really as they have to be reliable.

currently all hopes lie with the RSV450 if anything ever becomes of it...

Hopefully as 2 strokes are phased out 250's will be replaced by 500/600's and 125's will be replaced by 250's.
Perhaps even the law will change allowing learners bigger bikes in an effort to kill off 2 strokes?

[Milo]

[stevo as b4]

Yeah i think its crazy that nothing has ever emerged to fill the gap in racing that the demise of the 400's/250 Strokers have left. I mean there must be many people out there who would like to start out in racing, and at a cheap low cost beginners level. It therefore seems crazy to me that you would have to start with a 600 supersports bike, and have to learn on that. I also think really apart from supermoto racing, there is no logical entry into the national race classes, other than 600's, and i think this is wrong.

[JonB]

Read in MCN a couple of months back that due to the success of the new CBR125RR they are thinking of starting production on a CBR250RR, hopefully it won't be as small though.
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Be careful whose advice you buy, but, be patient with those who supply it. Advice is a form of nostalgia, dispensing it is a way of fishing the past from the disposal, wiping it off, painting over the ugly parts and recycling it for more than it?s worth.

[Zero-G]

Or as ugly!

[Milo]

[JonB]

Do you reckon you could tune a 250cc 4t to go quite fast though?

Milo, this was for production in the UK. Could be a couple of years though.
____________________
Be careful whose advice you buy, but, be patient with those who supply it. Advice is a form of nostalgia, dispensing it is a way of fishing the past from the disposal, wiping it off, painting over the ugly parts and recycling it for more than it?s worth.

[TheShaggyDA]

[silent]

i have a zxr250a, loverly bike, and its for sale...was mint until monday where some fool opulled out while i was filtering, now it has cracked topfairing, cracked mudguard, damaged left fairing and bent fork (possibly) and probably a warped disk....oh and a nice dent in the tank from my nuts

i just wish people would look before pulling out....

anyway, it goes like stink with a 19000rpm redline and it has awesome handling, i love it but i want an sv650 to munch motorway miles...makes around 40bhp

Andy

[simon1221]

Bros got a GPX250, custom colour scheme, about 40bhp i think.

Stupidly high redline though, about 16000 rpm
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DNA50 (sorry) ->> TZR125l >> GPZ500S

[G]

Apart from the proper sports 250s, I wouldn't consider any of the other 250cc 4 stroke engines very sporty. From what I've heard neither is the CBR125.

Sounds more like they should put a fairing on a CB250 and call it a sports bike .


I do think there is a market for them... the rumours of aprilia's 400 could be interesting if the hype turns out to be real (like it ever does ).

[Kickstart]

Hi

Think there would be some market, but many people would not consider them. There have been numerous tales on here of people doing DAS with others on their course intending to buy a 999, R1, GSXR1000, etc, as a first bike despite being scared silly by the ER500s. Image is too important for too many people.

Many people buy 125s because they are forced to. Many people who are about to become learners do not realise that although a CBR125 is about the same performance as an RS or Mito, the 2 strokes can easily be derestricted to provide twice the power. This is perfectly legal once they have passed their 33hp tests.

Paying out again for a limited performance 250 just after passing your test seems like a lot of money to throw about.

The Japanese market 250 4 cylinder bikes were lovely pieces of kit, Nicely engineered. However, realistically they would cost virtually the same to build as a sports 600. Suspect a sporting 400 or 500 twin would be a better compromise, but the bikes in that category at the moment are not exactly modern in design (the fastest is the GPZ500, now out of production I think, and essentially just a few cosmetic changes since it was introduced at about the same time as the original CBR600).

All the best

Keith
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Traxpics, track day and racing photographs - Bimota Forum - Bike performance / thrust graphs for choosing gearing

[Klause]

When my friend was alive on his cbr250 (he died on it) we had a few races, my zzr250 could just about keep up but he would always be ahead, when we hit the 80mph area the cbr250 would keep going strong, mine just slowly kept going. I could brake faster than him, being a twin, we also agreed mine sounds nicer

R.I.P James
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Current bikes: 1960 Triumph 5ta x2, TTR600RE, KTM200EXC, Cagiva Elephant 900ie.

[nick.h]

what is the insurance like on a 250 4t compared to a 400 4t at 17?
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[Italjet MM5A] ll [Rieju RS1 Evolution] ll [Suzuki GS500e] ll [Suzuki GSX600F] ll [Honda CG125] ll [Pug Elyseo 125] ll [Yamaha YZF750R] ll [Yamaha Thunderace] ll [Yamaha R6] ll [Triumph 955i] ll [Hayabusa RZK3] ll [Suzuki RGV250] ll

[mchaggis]

[Milo]

I'd be after one as a fun bike - not as a first bike or or mile muncher as I've been there done that or already have that covered.
A 250 4 cylinder would be too expensive to buy but a twin or even a well developed single would be a laugh.
I've never ridden a goose, but I can imagine it being a lovely bike to ride - something like that but faired would be good.
Doesn't have to be 250 - but something that's an offical UK bike that's reasonable in terms of price, weight and performance would fill a significant void.
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Shaft drives rule.

[DynaMight]

If sport 600's in the early 90's produced between 80-90BHP (?) and the ones today produce 100-110BHP, I wonder what they could do with a 250 which produced about 40BHP in the early 90's or 400's that produced 60BHP.

I wont even go into weights....

Just look at the high demand for sports 400's still, If they were cut out theres such a huge jump from a 125 (restricted or not) to a 100+BHP 600.
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My bikes are at https://www.bikepics.com/members/dynamight/

[Kickstart]

[G]

[stevo as b4]

Well the 250cc 4stroke has been recently developed into a powerful specific engine, for Motocross. It was forced though really, as due to emissions legislation, they dont want people in the future to be buying 125cc MX bikes. Look how popular the 450cc 4strokes are now, in fact i bet Honda sells a fair few more CRF450's than CR's as does Yamaha with the YZ450F etc. The latest 250's are making about 38bhp maybe more, so they will eventually out sell and out pace the 125's seeing as no one is going to develop the 2stroke any further now.
As for a sports bike engine, well a 250cc single wouldnt be smooth or fast enough, but a twin with the same level of development as the latest MX bikes could be a 40bhp+ machine in a lightweight stiff sporty chassis. Of course all this development might be a waste of time if we need more 33bhp bikes for post test riders, so it would be pointless to develop say a modern day proddy racer with a 4stroke engine, thinking for example a kind of 4stroke KR1S.
The biggest shame is that the Japanese market has changed so much with the changes to their licensing laws for different capacities. The Japanese licensing system used to mean that it was very much in the interests of the manufacturers to make small high tech 250's and 400cc sports bikes a few years ago. To have had bikes as good as the CBR250 that were not cheaply built down to a strict budget like so many of todays new bikes, and not have anyone continue to develop or just re-style and re-sell them again is such a waste of existing technology. A Hornet or CBR250 with 33bhp would definately be a bigger seller in todays u.k market than they would have been a few years ago, and i cant see it being too much to ask for every manufacturer to have just one or two machines in the range that are purposely designed and marketed for the 33bhp class, that many new bikers fall into.

[Kickstart]