Old v New......

[cc123]

Following Bugsy's post showing the old 500cc GP bikes, got me thinking....

What would win on say a 20 lap race between an older GP bike and the current crop of bikes? I'd say the newer bikes but having never really followed MotoGP in the 500 days thats just a stupid guess....

Also, anyone got specs on the old 500cc GP bikes? And why did they scrap the 500's?
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[palmer]

i would think the new ones would thrash the old ones. lighter, more powerful.

[iCraig]

[Visitor Q]

speaking purely from Motogp 3 experience ( ) they would get maimed. Same power but its takes a very very very good rider to get the power down at the right time, so as to get the powerband as they exit the corner without highsiding.

Whereas the 4 strokes pull all the time.

My lap times are anything up to 20 seconds slower on the strokers compared to the litres. But then that is a) because i cant be arsed dealing with the powerband highsides and so barely use them and b) its a game

But i know what id rather play on (hmmm yummy two stroke)
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[G]

The older bikes were a fair bit down on power compared to the 4 strokes.

For the first two years of moto-gp there were still some 2 strokes in there. Think some even got some ok results on tracks more suited to them.
They were allowed a slightly lower weight I believe; as far as I know most of the latest bikes are right on the minimum weight limits.

I think they were scrapped in an effort to get more people interested in the sport; as the bikes would appear to be more like the road bikes that can be purchased in the shops.
They weren't actually scrapped it should be pointed out, it's just that they introduced the possibility of having 4 stroke bikes of twice the capacity, rather than the same capacity. A tad cheeky in my opinion. I would prefer to see the option of 1000cc 2 strokes .

[EuropeanNC30R...]

It was apparent during the first year 4-strokes were introduced that you needed a 4-stroke to be win, thus all the teams had to goto them next year in order not to lose their sponsorship. .(It's been said that sponsors wouldn't back a bike that's out-of-date/not going to win).

Saying that, during the first 4-stroke year on one corner-speed orientated track Jeremy McWilliams dominated on a Proton KR 2-stroke. I can't remember if he won, the bike blew up, or he got taken out

Another reason for 4-strokes was the noise, they sound awesome.

[Kickstart]

Hi

The modern 4 strokes would leave the older 500cc 2 strokes behind. However that is to be expected when the 4 strokes can have twice the engine capacity.

They scrapped the 500s because nobody was really doing any 2 stroke development, and Honda (who hate 2 strokes) managed to finally get the rules changed to favour their beloved 4 strokes.

The 500cc 2 strokes were not really in that high a state of tune. They could not use the power they had so tended to be tuned to have more mid range. Think they were 160~180hp for the 4 cylinder ones.

All the best

Keith
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[Fortuna]

[McJamweasel]

On a similar note, it would be good to see how far back in GP history you have to go before the current litre road bikes are faster.

I suspect not all that far back - 10~15 yeards maybe.
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[Kickstart]

Hi

Not sure, but the 500s weighed 130kg and the power didn't change much over the past 15~20 years.

All the best

keith
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[ZRX61]

GP lap record at Willow Springs on one of the older 500's is a hair under 1.26..... (Lawson, Cagiva 500)...

Friend has lapped faster than that on a ZRX1100.... does that answer your question?

[kenny]

[Keith]

[Visitor Q]

I thought over 500cc 2-strokes were impractical?

Something about bore restricting flow or something?

Keith?

Also above a certain cc i thought they didnt really have a pronounced powerband?

Would love a play on a vdue tho
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From September 2014 to January/February 2015 I will not be using any English, nor reading any. As such, I won't be on here. PM at will, but I won't be checking/posting unless in emergencies. Certainly not for the first couple of months. Please berate me savagely if I break that rule...

[Doug]

[Kickstart]

Hi

2 strokes work well, but you do start to have packaging problems with the number of seperate exhausts. You still want a large number of cylinder for ultimate power.

All the best

Keith
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[Andy99]

Back in 1992 Honda had an NSR500 putting out 200bhp on a test bench but they didn't race it as the tyre technology wasn't up to it at the time and no one could use it.I remember Doohan used to have to keep telling Honda that he didn't want more power he wanted more usable power.
They reckon the current crop of sports road tyres are as good as racing slicks of the early 90's,makes you wonder how good our tyres are going to be in 10 years time really.
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