Urgent TT600 Help Required!

[MarJay]

Hello,

Today I made the decision (mistake) to ride my TT600 to work.

I had finished the electrics and the bike was ready to go.

However, on the way here I heard a loud ticking noise from the top end. The noise got worse and then the engine would not turn over.

I discovered a medium sized oil leak from the clutch case... not happy.

I checked the oil and it was very very low indeed. I'm quite annoyed because the oil was fine after I changed it recently, so I'm guessing that it was too viscous to move between the clutch cover and the engine case, but when heated it leaked out between the two.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this? What is the likely damage and how expensive might it be to fix? I only ran it for a couple of minutes after the noise appeared... the bike had been running fine up to that point. I had to find a safe place to pull over and then the engine would not turn over at all.


Help!
____________________
British beauty: Triumph Street Triple R; Loony stroker: KR1S; Track fun: GSXR750 L1; Commuter Missile: GSX-S1000F; Cheap project: CBR900RR FireBlade
Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another.

[R4nger]

Sounds exactly like a seized engine (piston rings, bore etc).

[Phoenix]

How long ago was this oil change where u checked the level, because to loose enough oil to sieze it would take a long time if it was only leaking through a break in the clutch cover seal when warm. Sounds like it'd been leaking since u changed the oil.

I had a friend who forgot to refil his ZX7R with oil after doing an oil change, he rode it 200miles before it seized. God knows how he managed it, woulda thought it'd sound rather unhealthy but he did. So like i say, unlikely you had any oil when you even left for work. Time for an overbore? Or maybe a new engine if your cams or crank are shagged.

[Kickstart]

Hi

I agree with Alex that it is unlikely to be an oil problem. The oil level will need to get very low before it will have a really screw the engine up and even then it is likely that you would need to ride with the oil light blinding you for quite a while.

It is possible that you have got a leak in an oil pipe to the head, possibly from a crack, at this is just happening to accumulate around the clutch cover. This could lead to top end problems.

What does it do when you try and turn it over?

Another option would be a charging issue. Basically the battery could have run down on the journey (and the fuel injection pump will swallow plenty of power from the battery), and the result was odd fueling and timing as the battery died leading to detonation. Not had a fuel injected bike but this does seem plausable (and more importantly, cheap and easy to fix).

All the best

Keith
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[MarJay]

Keith,
The engine doesn't turn over under the effort of the starter. It just makes a slight clicking noise. (not like a starter relay, the noise is different)

I had thought charging... but the headlight seems bright and the fuel injection primes ok when you turn the key.

I'm scared...

The pain is, the bike was riding like an absolute dream until it went.

I really really hope it is cheap and easy to fix.
____________________
British beauty: Triumph Street Triple R; Loony stroker: KR1S; Track fun: GSXR750 L1; Commuter Missile: GSX-S1000F; Cheap project: CBR900RR FireBlade
Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another.

[Kickstart]

Hi

Difficult to say.

It would need to be something fairly nasty for the starter not to be able to crank the engine over at all. Possible to seize it like that, but I suspect you would have had loads of notice with the bike feeling very throttled. Also if the oil level was too low then you would have had the oil warning light on (assuming it works).

Basically at the top end all that would stop it turning over are seized cams or a valve caught on a piston. The first is highly unlikely if it was running OK just before, and the second would make one hell of a noise. The pistons could seize, but they do not need that much oil and are likely to free off rapidly.

Not sure from the top of my head, but I would look mainly at the starter motor. They run off some kind of clutch onto the crank normally, but if it stuck it could make some really nasty noises (also quite possibly burn itself out). Get the starter motor off the bike and check that it spins up OK seperate from the bikes electrical system. Once this checks out then think about anything more serious.

Does the fuel pump prime itself on the TT when you switch on the ignition?

All the best

Keith
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Traxpics, track day and racing photographs - Bimota Forum - Bike performance / thrust graphs for choosing gearing

[MarJay]

Well thanks to the young Mr G and his Postie van I have managed to retrieve the TT600 from the depths of central Reading.

(cheers G )

In the process of trying to bump start the bike, we noticed two things:

1.) The bike would not turn the engine when trying to bump it in sixth gear

2.)When trying to pull the bike backwards in sixth gear we managed to get some movement of the engine... Tried the starter, it whined as if it were turning and then immediately stopped, as if something were stopping it.

My father suggested that it might be the timing chain (as he put it) so I'll have to follow G's suggestion of attempting to remove the camchain tensioner and have a shufti.

Anyone got any further ideas?
____________________
British beauty: Triumph Street Triple R; Loony stroker: KR1S; Track fun: GSXR750 L1; Commuter Missile: GSX-S1000F; Cheap project: CBR900RR FireBlade
Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another.

[G]

I retracted my 'remove the tensioner' statement.

Instead I suggest you take that cover off (being carefull to remove pipes so coolent/oil doesn't piss out everywhere.

If you're very lucky, it could just be that the tensioner has snapped and jammed, but suspect other stuff has gone wrong.

[MarJay]

Well, My dad and I have been looking at the TT600 workshop manual and discovered that there is a chain driven oil pump on the engine. I am hoping that it is something like this being jammed rather than a valve up against a piston or something similar.

I really hope it isn't an expensive fix. :S
____________________
British beauty: Triumph Street Triple R; Loony stroker: KR1S; Track fun: GSXR750 L1; Commuter Missile: GSX-S1000F; Cheap project: CBR900RR FireBlade
Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another.

[G]

Presume that's by the cam chain cover bit?

[MarJay]

thats the one.
____________________
British beauty: Triumph Street Triple R; Loony stroker: KR1S; Track fun: GSXR750 L1; Commuter Missile: GSX-S1000F; Cheap project: CBR900RR FireBlade
Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another.

[Robby]

A fun one this is.

Right then, first symptoms were a top end ticking noise. That could be camchain moving around a bit, camshaft noise if it isn't getting enough oil. Maybe something else, But I'm not sure what else it could be.

The engine isn't seized up fully, because you got some movement. Because the starter motor had a chance to whine it suggests some movement in it, so the movement you felt wasn't just play in the final drive and gearbox.

I assume the oil pump sits in the sump and is driven by a chain from the crank, as on many car engines. If this chain had snapped it would have bunched up around the oil pump, having been thrown free from the still spinning under power crank. The bunched up chain could have been forced up against the crank and caused it to lock up, but still allowing some free play in the opposite direction.

If the oil leak is coming from a gasketed surface I'd ignore that and just treat it as a gasket needed renewing for now.

So. Things to do.

Drop the oil into a clean pan, strain it through some tights, see how much shiny stuff is looking back at you. Also if the filter was new I'd take that off and see if there are any chunks of metal that look like a bit of chain in it.

Not of course that you'd expect the bits of chain to get flushed into the filter if the pump was no longer being driven.

If the oil has shiny bits of metal in, and the oil pump sits in the sump, take the sump off and look for a chain in it.

To check if the camchain is still there, just take out the spark plugs, take off the rocker cover and the crank end nut cover (about the size of a 50p) and try to turn the crank with a socket. If the crank turns and the cams turn, you haven't broken this bit.
Probably worth doing this bit first.