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Kickstart
The Oracle



Joined: 04 Feb 2002
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PostPosted: 22:26 - 12 Sep 2005    Post subject: Dodgy Laser Reply with quote
Hi

Found this press release from Safe Speed about a TV program this evening showing that laser speed guns can easily be misused to provide false high readings.

SafeSpeed wrote:

PR239: Laser speed meters untrustworthy

News: For immediate release

BBC TV programme "Inside Out" have been testing a laser speed meter, and will broadcast this evening a film showing two laser speed meters pointing at the same vehicle showing markedly different speeds. The regional programme will air in London and BBC South West region this evening at 7:30.

Under UK law, offences must be proven 'beyond a reasonable doubt'. The BBC film illustrates a potentially commonplace error. Millions of drivers have been convicted with unsound evidence, and many prosecutions are ongoing.

The error in question is known as 'slip error'. It happens when the aiming point of the beam moves across the target vehicle. This works because laser speed meters do not directly measure speed. Instead they take a series of distance measurements. If the aiming point moves along the target vehicle the change in distance of the aiming point adds to or subtracts from the true speed.

Sources tell us that the Home Office did not test for this error before issuing type approval.

Paul Smith, founder of the Safe Speed road safety campaign
(www.safespeed.org.uk) said: "I have seen the film and it is shocking. No wonder we get a steady stream of indignant motorists complaining to us that they know for sure that they were not driving at the speed of which they are accused. And no wonder that people have christened the most common laser speed meter the 'dodgyscope'.

Paul continues: "I am 100% certain that these devices are not suitable for gathering legal evidence of vehicle speeds. They make mistakes and the BBC film proves it. The Home Office must immediately suspend type approval on these devices pending a full investigation. Millions of drivers will be entitled to refunds, licence points removed and in some cases a large amount of compensation."

At a very rough estimate, over 5 million drivers have been convicted on the basis of laser speed meter evidence in the last 5 years. The fines refund alone will run to £300 million. This is a disaster of epic proportions."

"Paul concludes: "With £300 million pounds at stake, we should expect some fierce resistance. But resistance is futile. The 'dodgyscope' is proved to be dodgy.


All the best

Keith
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Jack_Cheese
World Chat Champion



Joined: 14 Jul 2005
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PostPosted: 22:33 - 12 Sep 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote
The first thing that springs to mind is a poor chappy who was taken to court, allegedly speeding at somewhere in the 730mph region. Anyone familiar with uber-fast cars would know that the Thrust SSC's average run for the land speed record was 714mph - breaking the sound barrier. I'm no expert, but i'm fairly certain even the koenigsegg can't reach that. Needless to say, the case was thrown out (i assume the judge had good chuckle). Also, some paint colours and finishes reportedly do funky things to the lasers, giving fairly dodgy readings.

Jack
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XS1954
Spanner Monkey



Joined: 22 Nov 2003
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PostPosted: 23:20 - 12 Sep 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote
Another speed camera post Kickstart. Have you been caught by a speed camera by any chance? I get the impression that you are very anti camera from your posts/threads. What's with the obsession?

Genuine question, not having a go at you.
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Jack_Cheese
World Chat Champion



Joined: 14 Jul 2005
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PostPosted: 23:32 - 12 Sep 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote
Gatsos increase death rates, but this post is about lasers guns (unless my head is up my chocolate starfish... Crying or Very sad )

Jack
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Mr noOdles
Nova Slayer



Joined: 19 Aug 2005
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PostPosted: 23:35 - 12 Sep 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote
Jack_Cheese wrote:
the Thrust SSC's average run for the land speed record was 714mph - breaking the sound barrier


actually the speed of sound is 764mph (1223kph) Rolling Eyes
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Kickstart
The Oracle



Joined: 04 Feb 2002
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PostPosted: 23:39 - 12 Sep 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote
Simon wrote:
Another speed camera post Kickstart. Have you been caught by a speed camera by any chance? I get the impression that you are very anti camera from your posts/threads. What's with the obsession?


Not been caught. Just think that they totally miss the point, have no positive effect on road safety and just make the roads more dangerous, more congested and less pleasant to travel on.

All the best

Keith
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Kickstart
The Oracle



Joined: 04 Feb 2002
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PostPosted: 23:42 - 12 Sep 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote
Mr noOdles wrote:
actually the speed of sound is 764mph (1223kph) Rolling Eyes


It varies with conditions.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_of_sound

Bonneville Salt Flats are ~4300 feet above sea level.

All the best

Keith
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sickpup
Old Timer



Joined: 21 Apr 2004
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PostPosted: 23:46 - 12 Sep 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote
Simon wrote:
Another speed camera post Kickstart. Have you been caught by a speed camera by any chance? I get the impression that you are very anti camera from your posts/threads. What's with the obsession?

Genuine question, not having a go at you.


Why should someone have to have been caught by a speed camera to be disturbed by it?

I'm shocked that our government relies on a device as evidence in court that is easily compromised by operator incompetence and programing errors. How can you prove beyond 'reasonable doubt' when a device can be proved to be unreliable?

To take things further this device was only ever tested on metal skinned cars and not plastic skinned bikes which use different types of paint and primer which absorb different wavelengths and can cause spurious readings yet this device is still used to prosecute motorcyclists, indeed it has government type approval yet has never been tested in this application.

I don't think of it as an obsession, more an interest in how to stop the government fucking me over.
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TOM M
World Chat Champion



Joined: 18 Mar 2005
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PostPosted: 00:24 - 13 Sep 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote
Does this meen that points could be removed?? *hopes in silence*
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Kickstart
The Oracle



Joined: 04 Feb 2002
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PostPosted: 00:33 - 13 Sep 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote
Maybe they should put up these signs:-

https://www.northernscum.org.uk/dump/x/

For amusement, here are the profits the scammers make:-

https://www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/groups/dft_foi/documents/page/dft_foi_040231.pdf

All the best

Keith
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Old Thread Alert!

The last post was made 20 years, 300 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful?
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