Offroading

[Silver]

After briefly toying with the idea of getting a GSXR1000 K5 (more through the shock of discovering the insurance was well below a grand as anything else) I've been looking at offroad bikes. I used to do a lot of offroad mountain biking when I was at school (when it was my main mode of transport) and I have a (tragically underused) Orange Gringo sat in the garage now.

The thing that's put me off getting an offroad bike in the past is not knowing where to go. After Korn pointed out (in one of his threads) that there is actually a track about 20 miles away from me I became more interested. Then, at the weekend I discovered a fair sized track 6 miles away

So, I'm seriously considering chopping in my GSXR600 (trackbike) on the basis that I can use the GSXR750 for road and track.

What should I get? I've been looking round and reading reviews and the bikes that stand out are the Honda XR250 and Suzuki DR350, DR-Z400.

There's a decent looking XR250 at my local dealer; 1993, 5500kms, very clean, £1500. I know it's only about 28bhp, but I'm not too worried about flat out speed as I'll probably spend most of my time falling off it The reviews I've read say it has plenty of torque to drag you through the mud, lob you over jumps etc.

What do people think?

Also, any advice on clothing (other than the obvious helmet difference)? I don't think I'd need my sliders...

[Sparks!]

What bike? Depends what riding your doing. Just mx tracks then get a 2 stroke mx bike, CR125 or something.. I'd say as a novice a 125 would do you fine.. 125 in MX isn't like a 125 road bike, they are fast off road, 250's are very very fast as are big 4 strokes like the KTM 450/525 Yz426/450 etc a 250 4 stroke is an ideal bike also.. problem is how much you're looking to spend.. a decent 250 4 stroke for mx use is going to cost a fair bit.. an XR etc would be good for messing about on but don't expect massive jumps and fast track stuff...

Also depends how much your spending.

XR's, DR's etc are trail/enduro bikes and won't live up to big jumps/mx tracks unless you're just messing about.

It just depends what you want out of the off road bike as to what bike to get.

Gear wise, get motocross jersey/trousers/boots/gloves/helmet/goggles/armour and you're sorted.. again it depends what riding you're doing.. enduro clothing is different to mx clothing and you should decide accordingly really.
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Current Toys: 06 Yamaha WR250F | Nissan 350Z GT | Tech 4 Homes

[Korn]

There are loads of motocross tracks around, the better ones you have to pay for but it's still dirt cheap (heh) at around £10 for a day. If you decide on a road legal crosser or an enduro you will also be able to go trail riding, which is an adventure in itself so worth thinking about what you want to do. Trails are everywhere - and for my money just as fun as the circuit stuff, though a lot less intense.

As Yams said don't look negatively at the engine sizes, off road is a whole different world and too much power is a hinderance. A cheap 2-stroke 125 or 4-stroke 250 is a good beginner bike to learn motocross on, won't punish you for making mistakes and is plenty fast enough to still scare yourself - especially in the air!

For trail riding it's always nicer to have that extra bit of grunt especially on tarmac roads so ideally I'd say something in the 400cc region of four strokes would be a good bet, an XR400 / WR400 / DRZ400 from the newer lot or maybe a DR350 for something older. As for motocross preferably a two stroke, say an CR125, RM125 or KX125 - going up to 250's if you're feeling very brave.
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3516 Miles, 11 Countries

[Silver]

How do you find your XR250?

I remember at Boxhill it went pretty well on the road (or seemed to, at least ) and you seemed to get some decent air on it in your pictures.

I'm not a big fan of two-strokes so would rather stick to a four, but I'll only be using it for mucking about on, so I'm not worried if it's a bit slower etc than some others - as long as it's not annoyingly so.

I would probably be riding on the road too - to and from tracks etc.

[Yeti]

I did a little bit of racing when i was younger and i had a KX 125, great bikes, i loved mine and i found it to be powerfull enough for track use, there very light and they have plenty of get up and go. IMO have a look at the KX125 great moto x bike.
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Lifes a Beach!

[G]

Trail riding less intense?

Long 45 degree hill climbs - and descents with front brake on full. Getting lost, steep up hill gullies with roots sticking out?

Think I crashed more on the trail riding than the motocross track .

All good fun anyway .

I'm quite tempted by something like a KMX220 or even a CRM250; they have a bit wider spread of power than the 125 moto-x bikes, though only slightly more peak power. Need a lot less maitenance and are road legal out of the box, do weigh only a bit less than the more trail style bikes though.

A long time ago I had looked at a DR350 until I noticed the CRM was listed as 10hp more and 10kg less .

[Gazdaman]

Looked at an XR400 recently, that looked like a whole lot of fun, picked up for about £1.5k

Seat height looked high though, but I guess the suspension compresses alot.

Gaz

[Korn]

[Korn]

[stinkwheel]

Could we extend this thread to include any top-tips for people who have done little or no offroad riding like myself?

I have learned three things which could be usefull:

1) Momentum overrides grip. If you are going in a certain direction, you will tend to keep going in that direction if you loose traction, this is improtant if you hit something like a patch of wet grass. If you look ahead and see the point you will exit the gripless area in a straight line ahead of you, don't panic, you'll make it through.

2) You can go too slowly. Look for areas where you will get grip and go for them, don't concentrate where you won't get grip and slow down, it will be just as slippery at a low speed. Use point 1) to get through the slippery patches.

3) Puddles usually have a solid bottom, you are often better splashing through the middle of a wet patch rather than skirting round the water. The edges are usually greasy mud, the water is usually lying there because there is a solid bottom (or you land up in the shit up to the axles, but if this is the case, going off to one side would be equally as bad).
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“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[G]

One that Korn's mentioned a few times that I found useful:
You always want the rear to be losing traction. So leave the front alone pretty much.
Coming out of a corner if the rear starts to slide it's a lot more likely to be savealbe than on a road bike. However if the front goes you've got a lot less chance of staying upright.

You want to be landing on the downward slope of tabletop jumps if you're clearing them; completely clearing the jump with your bike angled down towards the approaching ground is a bad thing . If it's a jump where you're landing on the flat, make sure the rear goes down first.
After 'analyising' my technique I realised my body was too far forward.

[Korn]

A few general differences from road riding:

1) The rear brake is your friend, even a locked up rear will stop you quicker on the muddy stuff than grabbing the front. Ever noticed how dirt bikes have teeny front brakes? It's because they're not that useful.

2) Don't be afraid of losing traction. Whereas on a sports bike on road or track slides are definitely a bad thing off road they are part of the fun and much more controllable.

3) Get out of your seat! The reason the seat is so high and narrow is because a lot of the time you aren't supposed to be sitting on it, take your weight on your legs and use them as extra shock absorbers and you'll find this much more stable.

Some bits specific to motocross:

Entering turns: Coming into a turn that doesn't have a (usable) berm you want to be doing most of your braking with the rear brake and engine braking, tip the bike into the turn and don't be surprised if the rear carries on sliding, this helps you tighten the corner. You want to be finished with your braking/slide by the time you get to the apex, and always have your inside leg ready to stick out and kick the bike back up should the front tuck in or the back get too out of shape.

Exiting turns: Once past the apex turn on the beans and get the back tyre spinning up just enough to tighten the turn but not too much as you don't want to be wasting the power you should be using for accelerating out of the corner. If it all gets too sideways either back of the gas or shift your weight over the rear a bit more to give it traction and step back in line.

Berms: Remember that when riding a berm you're being pushed in to it and thus have a shitload more grip available due to being fairly upright in relation to the surface. If you treat it as a normal turn you'll enter it much too slowly and lose the benefit, instead you want to be barreling in to where the bank begins and letting the berm take you round and spit you out. Again the most fun way out is sideways, don't be afraid to get on the power.

Taking off: Don't stay in your seat and don't back off the gas, doing this is likely to see you chucked up in the air and over the handle bars. What you want to be doing is staying seated up until the point of take off then as the bike is heading up the ramp standing up and absorbing the jump with your legs. Always leave a jump on the gas, keeping the power on until the back wheel has left the ground.

Landing: In the air you should be oriented with your front wheel slightly higher than the rear, your arms extended and standing up ready to absorb the landing with your legs. If you used too much throttle on takeoff you'll need to bring your weight forward to bring the front down (example) and if you used too little throttle you'll need to bring it back and extend your arms (example) for the landing.

Some bits specific to trail riding:

Ruts: When in a rut just stand up, relax and ride it out. Trying too hard to change direction or get out is likely to just wash out the front wheel and send you off. If you really want out slow down, sling your weight back and get on the gas, once the front wheel is out the rear will follow if you tap enough power on.

Water: As Stinkwheel said don't be afraid to cross puddles or streams, but be careful of water you can't see through as there may be a deep hole there or logs/rocks underwater which you can't see. Once in to the water focus on your exit and keep the bike moving, the last thing you want to do is stop/stall and drop a kick-start only bike in 18 inches of water and mud!

Looking ahead: Don't focus on the three feet of trail in front of your bike, instead try to look ahead and pick your line. This lets you spot any hazards early and correct course to avoid / tackle them, it also makes things a hell of a lot more relaxed as you're not being jumped by unexpected hazards all the time.

Deep mud: Don't be afaid to tackle very boggy ground, a bike with decent off road knobblies can churn through the most unlikely mud. Try to take a straight line through the bog and keep your weight over the rear wheel to give it traction, don't be surprised if you find yourself in one long, slow, wheelspin if the going is particularly bad.

Getting stuck: If you find yourself spinning without going anywhere stop, it's no use digging a big hole with your rear wheel because you're only going to have to lift the bike out of it! Get off and manhandle the bike out of trouble or walk it out on the clutch.

Falling off: Dropping the bike and crashing is part of the fun, if you've fallen off try to quickly get the bike back upright then have a breather or a rest and check for any damage before setting off again. Remember a bike that's been on its side or upside down will be harder to start.

Hmmm, this turned out a lot longer than it was supposed to be
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3516 Miles, 11 Countries

[Silver]

Thanks for the replies.

Just popped into the field where the track is 6 miles from my house, and on my route to work (so how the hell have I missed it for the last two years? ). They're open Wednesdays 10am-8pm and Sundays 10am-4pm. Cost is £15 for the full day. Unofficial "lap record" is around 1m30s so not too small a track either. Sounds good

[gavking]

is there a 'directory' of trails and off road circuits?
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XJR400R, Ohlins Shocks, Brembo brakes all round, Full Digital dash, Cockpit fairing, twin lamp headlight. Lookin' Good!

[Silver]

[Dr Nick]

Get a 2 stroke crosser, much more fun than any of them 4 strokes, unless like a competition 4 stroker like a crf etc.



CR250
KX250
Can pick up newish models quite cheap and parts are cheap.
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is that it

[G]